Hamon lost in translation.

P

petah

Joined
Jul 22, 2008
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Temperline (TL) is a transition between the hard and soft steels. when done properly it yields a soft spine and ricasso,hard edge, great break resistance/lamination on larger knives swords etc. In smaller knives I will say its decorative.

Having a TL can be good like I mentioned before or it can hinder the functionality of a knife...Here is my issue:

I see many smiths who try to make Large wavy TL's on large knives that offer no functionality. Often these lines get VERY close to the cutting edge and after a few years of use you may have a soft spot on your blade. (Often seen on top clips and near the ricasso. True, who uses a top clip often?? It is still a fictional edge on a knife though just a bit less functional)

I also see the TL way to close to the edge on large knives. If you really start using the knife hard will it be bendy like a machete? will it grind through in a few years of use and develop a soft spot?

My biggest issue is when a smith lets the TL cross a cutting edge. I see this on topclips all the time. OR the TL ends in a very bad spot like a stress point.


My question is this: There are many prominent smiths who make these 'mistakes' yet they are praised for beautiful functional knives. They may or may not have designations. At the end of the day if a knife has a obvious TL issue which may or may not cause functionality issues down the road, why the heck do people still buy it/praise it? If I had a chance to get a knife from a great maker at a LOW price that had one of these issues I would pass on it. And I have passed on it a few times... Am I the only one?
 
Well, I don't abide any maker that has a TL run off the edge. Nor one that only has enough hard material that it would only take a few sharpenings before running into soft material.

But I see all sorts of metalurgical claptrap and justifications in the knife world. People buy hype. So educate yourself and buy the knives you like. There will always be well liked charlatans.

Most of the time a TL is an esthetic decision anyway. You can only tell the difference between a 1095 blade with a soft back draw and a 1095 blade with a TL by destroying the blade. Not in actual use.

-Nick
 
For what it's worth, "temper line" is a misnomer. It has nothing to do with tempering. "Quench line" or "hardening line" are more accurate. Hamon refers to the actual shape of the yakiba, which is the hardening line itself. Sort of like referring to the hubcap on a car as "the circle".

That said, in the Japanese sword world, a yakiba that runs off the edge either through the heat treatment method or due to wear/polishing is considered a "fatal flaw". This renders the sword essentially worthless to the collector. My view of knives is colored by this bias but perhaps not quite so rigorously as in my appreciation of Japanese-style swords.
 
bluejaunte said:
For what it's worth, "temper line" is a misnomer. It has nothing to do with tempering. "Quench line" or "hardening line" are more accurate. Hamon refers to the actual shape of the yakiba, which is the hardening line itself. Sort of like referring to the hubcap on a car as "the circle".

That said, in the Japanese sword world, a yakiba that runs off the edge either through the heat treatment method or due to wear/polishing is considered a "fatal flaw". This renders the sword essentially worthless to the collector. My view of knives is colored by this bias but perhaps not quite so rigorously as in my appreciation of Japanese-style swords.
Click to expand...

I collect Nihonto and... kitae-ware, kuchikomi, yaki-ware, and the worst/best of all tsukare with kirikomi...


My real gripe with with the 'hardening line' that cuts across cutting edges or is REALLY to close to the cutting edge... Then makers polish the hamon out to make it beautiful while exposing the flaw...


EDIT: and aesthetically at least for me, if it don't look right then there's an issue.
 
petah said:
the worst/best of all tsukare with kirikomi...
Click to expand...

LOL, sorry, the line "...with authentic battle damage!" from Kung-fu Panda just reverberated in my head. :D

My real gripe with with the 'hardening line' that cuts across cutting edges or is REALLY to close to the cutting edge... Then makers polish the hamon out to make it beautiful while exposing the flaw...

EDIT: and aesthetically at least for me, if it don't look right then there's an issue.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, for the most part. But I don't necessarily think we can hold all knifemakers to the same standard(s) to which tosho are held. So at this point I still consider it a "preference" for me that the quench line not get too close to the edge (false or otherwise).
 
In functionality you are 100% right it's preference... grinding through 1/8th (or even less) of metal with use is not likely going to happen any time soon... but it still something I consider quite a bit when buying. It just doesn't look right to my eye.
 
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