Hamon? Not visible

rad148 · Jan 22, 2003

Hi, recently bought an supposedly antique Aikuchi which had listed this description of the blade:

The steel blade features a Hirazukuri and an Iorimune, as well as a Hamon Suguha, a straight Hamon pattern. The Nakago is adhered to the hilt. The Habaki, the metal collar used to prevent the sword from touching the inside of the saya, is gilded.

When I received the purchase, there was no visibale Hamon line. I am used to such knives with a Hamon ie a Corkum I own and others. This blade had no visible hamon line.
I searched for "Hamon Suguha" but found no discription help. The blade is probably high carbon steel as it has been obviously polished to beautify some of the rust pitting on the sides of the blade.
Can polishing (restoration) of a blade eradicate any exisiting hamon lines? Does any one know what a "Hamon Suguha" is, and is it different from the wavy type hamon lines on my other blades.
This is my first sojourn into Antique style blades. The Ivory carving appears authentic enough but thought all hamon lines should be visible.
Any can help me with some info on this?
I know pics would help, but am still awaiting my last membership upgrade to post pics.
tks for any help,
rad

Keith Montgomery · Jan 22, 2003

Suguha is a straight temper line. It is quite possible that the polishing of the blade removed the visible hamon. This would be a good question to ask Robert Marotz over on the Sword Discussion Forum. He is very knowledgeable when it comes to traditional Jaspanese blades and might be able to shed more light on this question.

beluga · Jan 22, 2003

Hamon suguha is a straight hamon (as opposed to Corkum's wavy hamon). If the seller claims that the aikuchi has a suguha hamon, then it should be visible to naked eyes.

The difference between suguha and notare/gunome (wavy) exists from how the blade was coated in clay when it was made. The quality of the blade has never been determined by the type of hamon it possesses. Although I and many japanese swords collectors believe that suguha hamon is more difficult to make.

There are a couple of ways to make the blade show its hamon.

1. Send it to a polisher, and have the blade polished. Kinda expensive. If the blade does not possess such value, it's not worth having a polisher polish it. Art polish usually start from $100/cutting inch. Regular polish usually starts from $40/cutting inch.

2. Etch the hamon yourself. Get a PCB etchant from your local Radioshack. Mix it with water (10 water : 1 etchant). Apply the solution on the blade (remember to disassemble the blade from its fitting). Wait for a couple minutes, and if it has hamon, it will show. You know it when you see it.

If possible, please put pics. I am interested to see what tanto you have.

BTW, polishing compund will not reveal the hamon, unless the hamon has shown but covered with patina of some sort.

Good luck, and let me know how it goes.

beluga · Jan 22, 2003

The ivory carving.

I honestly don't think your blade has much investment value. As a matter of fact, I never seen a valuable blade with carved ivory fitting. I might be wrong though.

rad148 · Jan 22, 2003

Ok, but am still a bit confused. One says that polishing will remove the hamon, other says no. I guess my concern is whether I have just bought some thing that is less than advertised, ie a piece of steel that has used stock removal to replace the original or something along those lines.
The description of the hamon line was what really got me to buy this blade and am still trying to find an expert here in Bangkok to authenticate it.
Beluga,
Mistake, it is not Ivory but Stag antler. My membership upgrade still hasnt come through so cant post my own pics but the ebay link is here. The pictures concentrate more on the carving than the blade itself however, but there is definately no hamon line. Appreciate the information and help on this. Oh, you have some very nice edges in your collection Beluga. As for the polishing, I do have someone who could do this for me here in Bangkok, but first need to verify that I have made an honest purchase.
rad
Aikuchi link
Ps..the butt cap of the sheath popped off the second time I inserted the blade. Appears the wooden scabbord inside the sheath is not fitted well and pushed against the end cap. I am becoming not so enamored by this purchase.

Crayola · Jan 22, 2003

Polishing dOes and does not bring out the hamon!

Polishing brings out the hamon near the end stages of the traditional process. If you took, say, 400 grit paper to a blade with a visible hamon, the hamon would disappear!

In order to check whether or not there is a hamon, you either need to get that sucker polished properly, or have it polished and then etched. A p600 grit or so polish (maybe even less) and an etch will bring out the hamon. But note that it wouldn't look like a traditional hamon (which is white, among other differences). If I wanted an authentic polish, I would only do the etch thing to determine of the blade you have was hardened through the yakiire process.

I'd recommend asking your polisher contact what to do, as well a sharing your concerns with the guy you got the blade from.

rad148 · Jan 22, 2003

Tks Crayola,
Your reply really put things into context. Not being facetious either, you have helped. Just wondering then, if the dealer says there is a hamon, but even he can't actually see it, how does he know there is one? Is this normal?
Man, you just gotta love this learning process. It took me 3 years to learn about modern day knives (still learning), what is good and not so good, steels, forging, customs... and now have stepped into a whole new world of blades. Learning is not cheap, but with help from other forumites like yourself, beluga and Keith, it is more bearable.
Tks to all.
rad

Robert Marotz · Jan 22, 2003

I hope it's been within 7 days of receipt...

From the auction page...

TERMS & CONDITIONS

All auctioned items are guaranteed to be authentic & antique unless clearly otherwise stated. Any item may be returned if the description turns out to be incorrect AND if for this reason the value of this item is significantly lower than the actual purchase price. All returns must be announced and justified by e-mail within 7 days of the receipt of the item.

However to clarify on other things...Crayola and Beluga are pretty much correct.

Polishing removes a hamon when you are burnishing the surface, or if the surface is not "clear" enough to see a hamon. You can actually have a visible line at less than 400 grit finish if it's done right, but you can also have it be completely concealed at 2000 grit if done wrong!

The photographs do not show much but what they hint at is that the blade is somewhat shoddy. Bone and ivory (or antler???) tanto from the Meiji period are nearly always of low quality, and I would hazard a guess that it's not worth nearly what was paid.

Is it possible that there's a gem hiding within the mangled remains of the blade? Yes. It's extremely unlikely but I personally am hesitant to dismiss things altogether.

The fact that it says the nakago is adhered to the hilt also helps support this...because a high quality blade is not designed to be permanently affixed to the handle.

Here's an example of a tanto with a suguha hamon:

Just thought I would add that for your reference.

Sorry that you are finding yourself displeased with a purchase...but perhaps a good learning opportunity.