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- Mar 26, 2002
- Messages
- 3,397
This is an edited summary of another thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=239466
---they really aren't temper lines. They are, properly, *hardening* lines ' cause .....what we are seeing are the different cooling rates of the steel.
---"Hamon" itself is actually a tricky word, but to be simple we'll use it to refer to the transition zone between soft body (generally pearlite) and hard edge (martensite). This will be the line "higher up" on the blade,
---the problem is I spent about 5 hours going back and forth between the ferric chloride and hand-sanding before I got the hamon to look really nice.I finally triumped by etching it in a relatively strong solution of F.C. to water probably 1 part etchant to 2 parts water after buffing and then hand polishing with 600 then 1000 grit wet dry.
---I would suggest using a milder acid for etching as I have had little luck with ferric chloride. I prefer hot vinegar with a couple of drops of dish soap in it to wet the blade and prevent the etch solution from balling up on the surface.
---I know Don Fogg and some others have written about using ferric swabbed on the blade to make the hamon "pop" but I haven't had much luck with it either. What has worked best for me is vinegar also. It is very very very slow...but the end result I'm getting is worth it (IMHO)
---Actually that is not too bad for a hand polish time. I usually go down to 1000 then etch with a 1 to 2 mixture of Fecl and H2O, then rub again with 1000 or 1200. I repeat these steps until I am satisfied with the way it looks. However if you want something not quite traditional but not bad looking. Take the blade to a 600 grit then etch the whole blade with straight ferric. It will get a nice frosty gray look and the temperline jumps right out. Then a quick light rub with 800 grit. More of a tactical look.
---The polishing sequence ...... move through 220 grit foundation polish to about 1000 grit on the areas below the ridgeline and go to 2000 grit on everything above. I use a ceramic block and fold paper to fit over it making a stone that has an easily removable surface. I use Windex for lubricant. For an etch I always use hot vinegar and add a few drops of dish soap to break the surface tension....this makes the solution wet the entire surface and not ball up. I clamp the blade horizontal to the floor and then apply the boiling hot solution with cotton swabs to the hamon area and keep the blade warm with a small butane torch. When it has etched enough I remove the black oxide with Flitz, Noxon, Pikal, or Simichrome polish and then re etch as many as 20 times to get the depth of activity I like. Ferric chloride has never worked well for me for this application as it is too harsh.
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Here's a bit more summarized from another thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=182074
-----basically what Terry Primos posted on the CKD, which I highly recommend you go over and look at!
I've been sanding the blades to at least 600 by hand, but up to 2500 on some. I etch in a mix of [1 part ferric chloride to 4 parts water] after cleaning the blade with liquid ivory and then Windex (with ammonia).
== I have used 3 parts water to 2 parts acid, but the slower etch usually looks nicer. ==
I leave the blade in for about 30 seconds and take it out to make sure it was clean and there are no shiny spots. I then put it back in...you have to play with the length of time to get however deep you want on the etch.
Then I clean it off with soap, then give it a bath in baking soda. Then I sit down and rub on the blade for about 20 minutes with Flitz metal polish. It seems like after a few minutes you aren't getting anywhere, but I keep doing it...and comparing a blade rubbed for a few minutes and one rubbed for 20, you definitely can see the difference.
I rub the Flitz on with my thumb or finger, bare. After that's done, I rub it with a flannel rag for a couple minutes. It really brings it out this way.
----- The method I've been using which Nick mentioned is for a bold temper line -- one that jumps out and slaps you in the face. But that's not always what you want.
First let me mention that I primarily work with the plain carbon steels in the 10xx series. They seem to lend themselves very well to bold temper lines. I haven't gotten quite as bold temper lines with O1 or 5160. All I can figure is maybe it has something to do with that little dab of chromium they both have, but don't quote me on that, that's just a wild guess. It could be that I just haven't spent enough time experimenting with them.
Anyway, after washing with hot soapy water and rinsing, I wipe some of the excess black crap from the etching process off with a paper towel. When I told Nick about my process, I was following that with a paste of baking soda and water. Here lately I've skipped the baking soda and gone straight to the Flitz.
You can see where I've been rubbing in a circular motion with the Flitz. This is the part where Nick mentioned that it looks like you aren't getting anywhere. I rub a while then wipe the blade down with a cotton cloth and take a look. If it's still too dark, I'll give it another go with the Flitz until I get what I'm looking for.
Now I doubt that it's anything magic in the Flitz. I just happen to keep a supply of Flitz which is ever-so-slightly abrasive, so that's one of the things I tried. It satisfied me and I stuck with it. I also in the past tried just the baking soda paste. One time I even tried Topol smokers tooth polish. I was reading the label on it an saw that one of the ingredients was aluminum oxide. I thought, "Heck, I can brush my teeth and sand some furniture at the same time".
-----I used to do the same thing as you but used finely powdered pumice instead of Flitz. I used a wet leather pad and rubbed the pumice on the blade. Gets rid of the black and brings up a polish real fast. I alway have a quart or so of Flitz around the shop so will try your way and see how it works out.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=239466
---they really aren't temper lines. They are, properly, *hardening* lines ' cause .....what we are seeing are the different cooling rates of the steel.
---"Hamon" itself is actually a tricky word, but to be simple we'll use it to refer to the transition zone between soft body (generally pearlite) and hard edge (martensite). This will be the line "higher up" on the blade,
---the problem is I spent about 5 hours going back and forth between the ferric chloride and hand-sanding before I got the hamon to look really nice.I finally triumped by etching it in a relatively strong solution of F.C. to water probably 1 part etchant to 2 parts water after buffing and then hand polishing with 600 then 1000 grit wet dry.
---I would suggest using a milder acid for etching as I have had little luck with ferric chloride. I prefer hot vinegar with a couple of drops of dish soap in it to wet the blade and prevent the etch solution from balling up on the surface.
---I know Don Fogg and some others have written about using ferric swabbed on the blade to make the hamon "pop" but I haven't had much luck with it either. What has worked best for me is vinegar also. It is very very very slow...but the end result I'm getting is worth it (IMHO)
---Actually that is not too bad for a hand polish time. I usually go down to 1000 then etch with a 1 to 2 mixture of Fecl and H2O, then rub again with 1000 or 1200. I repeat these steps until I am satisfied with the way it looks. However if you want something not quite traditional but not bad looking. Take the blade to a 600 grit then etch the whole blade with straight ferric. It will get a nice frosty gray look and the temperline jumps right out. Then a quick light rub with 800 grit. More of a tactical look.
---The polishing sequence ...... move through 220 grit foundation polish to about 1000 grit on the areas below the ridgeline and go to 2000 grit on everything above. I use a ceramic block and fold paper to fit over it making a stone that has an easily removable surface. I use Windex for lubricant. For an etch I always use hot vinegar and add a few drops of dish soap to break the surface tension....this makes the solution wet the entire surface and not ball up. I clamp the blade horizontal to the floor and then apply the boiling hot solution with cotton swabs to the hamon area and keep the blade warm with a small butane torch. When it has etched enough I remove the black oxide with Flitz, Noxon, Pikal, or Simichrome polish and then re etch as many as 20 times to get the depth of activity I like. Ferric chloride has never worked well for me for this application as it is too harsh.
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Here's a bit more summarized from another thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=182074
-----basically what Terry Primos posted on the CKD, which I highly recommend you go over and look at!
I've been sanding the blades to at least 600 by hand, but up to 2500 on some. I etch in a mix of [1 part ferric chloride to 4 parts water] after cleaning the blade with liquid ivory and then Windex (with ammonia).
== I have used 3 parts water to 2 parts acid, but the slower etch usually looks nicer. ==
I leave the blade in for about 30 seconds and take it out to make sure it was clean and there are no shiny spots. I then put it back in...you have to play with the length of time to get however deep you want on the etch.
Then I clean it off with soap, then give it a bath in baking soda. Then I sit down and rub on the blade for about 20 minutes with Flitz metal polish. It seems like after a few minutes you aren't getting anywhere, but I keep doing it...and comparing a blade rubbed for a few minutes and one rubbed for 20, you definitely can see the difference.
I rub the Flitz on with my thumb or finger, bare. After that's done, I rub it with a flannel rag for a couple minutes. It really brings it out this way.
----- The method I've been using which Nick mentioned is for a bold temper line -- one that jumps out and slaps you in the face. But that's not always what you want.
First let me mention that I primarily work with the plain carbon steels in the 10xx series. They seem to lend themselves very well to bold temper lines. I haven't gotten quite as bold temper lines with O1 or 5160. All I can figure is maybe it has something to do with that little dab of chromium they both have, but don't quote me on that, that's just a wild guess. It could be that I just haven't spent enough time experimenting with them.
Anyway, after washing with hot soapy water and rinsing, I wipe some of the excess black crap from the etching process off with a paper towel. When I told Nick about my process, I was following that with a paste of baking soda and water. Here lately I've skipped the baking soda and gone straight to the Flitz.
You can see where I've been rubbing in a circular motion with the Flitz. This is the part where Nick mentioned that it looks like you aren't getting anywhere. I rub a while then wipe the blade down with a cotton cloth and take a look. If it's still too dark, I'll give it another go with the Flitz until I get what I'm looking for.
Now I doubt that it's anything magic in the Flitz. I just happen to keep a supply of Flitz which is ever-so-slightly abrasive, so that's one of the things I tried. It satisfied me and I stuck with it. I also in the past tried just the baking soda paste. One time I even tried Topol smokers tooth polish. I was reading the label on it an saw that one of the ingredients was aluminum oxide. I thought, "Heck, I can brush my teeth and sand some furniture at the same time".
-----I used to do the same thing as you but used finely powdered pumice instead of Flitz. I used a wet leather pad and rubbed the pumice on the blade. Gets rid of the black and brings up a polish real fast. I alway have a quart or so of Flitz around the shop so will try your way and see how it works out.
