Hamon?

T

Tom Holt

Joined
Dec 30, 1999
Messages
475
I spent today using the full-tang 20" sirupati to cut cow-parsley (an obnoxious weed that grows on wet ground and in the beds of streams)

I think cow-parsley sap contains a lot of natural acid. One of the effects of this appears to be that it's etched the blade of my khuk to the point where a temper-line has become visible; rather like the hamon on a Japanese sword.

I've polished and lightly buffed the blade, to the point where it's mirror-shiny once again, and the temper-line's still there. This is no bad thing at all; it looks very fine and distinguished.

Has anyone tried deliberately etching a khuk to bring out the temper-line? I was sceptical about whether it'd work, since truck spring steel is reckoned not to show a visible hamon because of the manganese content (one of the alloy components, anyhow)

Have to say; a whole day swinging the full-tang sirupati was quite long enough for me... It'll cut through most anything, but so does my all-time favorite the 20" villager, and I can swing that puppy all day and hardly know it's there.
 
And speaking of hamons -- Broken Arrow is supposed to get one on the katana he is testing. Early test results are better than I expected for a number two prototype.

Better start placing orders for katana now!

------------------
Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
 
Bill, any word on developments in the handle configuration, and pricing?

Tom

Some people are alive simply because Rusty uses lots of medication.
wink.gif
(It throws his aim off
biggrin.gif
)

[This message has been edited by TomF (edited 05-13-2000).]
 
We have not gotten feedback from Jim March, Broken Arrow or RayC. I hope they will send info on handle configuration.

We will offer the rig without handle for those who want to do a traditional style handle of their own liking.

Looks like price will be about $250 for version with handle. $195 for version with tang only and no handle.

The katana will not be a clone of Japanese version but a BirGorkha interpretation. Should be very tough with handle that is very strong and there to stay.

------------------
Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
Khukuri FAQ
 
I kind of like the idea of having a traditional khukri handle, but lengthened for two-hand use; essentially two khuk handles one after the other (but with only one flare at the back, of course). This would be the best of both worlds, I think. Unless of course Kumar comes out with a king kobra with lengthened handle and about hald the amount of bend in the curve. That would be a blade i would buy, no question.

Tom
 
Tom F, 98 of 100 from the 16 yard line is chopped liver?
 
Correction to my previous post; the additive in 5160 that inhibits hamon formation is chromium, not manganese
 
I've already suggested something like a kumar kobra straightened with a spine curved like a saber or katana. But I want to see one first. Like I previously said and someone else also, just about any kind of dao from the region would be of interest as long as it was battleworthy. Problem with the kora is not that it isn't battleworthy, but that I'm not up to it. Love the 30" Sirupati but it reminds me of the bearing swords made to carry in parades.

Also like the idea of the kat being available with no handle. Does that still include scabbard?
 
Rusty, I spent (misspent?) too much time on the trap line to argue with 98/100. My hat's off to you.

I have been trying for some time to envisage the best shape for a long (20+ inch) blade from HI. The katana has some very good points, but, from what I know about katanas (which ain't much) the curve (a concave- curved spine) has to be very precise to give the maximum cutting power. It was a very elegant weapon with hundreds of years of thought and practice in the design. On the other hand, we have the traditional khukri shape (a convex-curved spine) which the kamis have had hundreds of years to perfect. But they don't normally make blades that long, and the longer it gets, the more bent forward it gets, negating some of the cutting power of the blade. In effect, you are stabbing downward with the tip, because the tip is now angled so far forward on a very long blade, that the belly of the blade isn't really in line with the motion of the hand and arm. At least it looks that way to me. I think if the convex angle of the spine were reduced by about half, then the belly would come back into play very nicely. I haven't got this picture posting thing down yet, but have a look at this:
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum53/HTML/000178

If you imagine his arm outstretched and swinging the blade, the angle would force the area of impact to be right near the tip instead of the "sweet spot." And this is with the tip slightly upswept. I beleive the earlier pix of the King Kobras didn't show that sweep. Apparently, this type of blade is still in development. But I would guess that the kamis have an almost instinctual feel for how khukris perform and how they should be shaped, rather than a straight or concave blade

So my dilemma is, either a nearly straight or slightly concave-curved blade, like the katana; or a slightly (or perhaps not so slightly!) convex-curved blade like the Kobra. Which to choose? I'm kind of holding off making any decision until I can see what the kamis come up with. Of course, without an order in hand and a plan, they don't really have any incentive to come up with anything else, right? Grrrr... Decisions, decisions...

Bill, with your permission, I'd like to try to download some of the pix you've posted so far of the King kobra and morph them a little to show you what I mean. Or try to...this Goo software is still very new to me, and I'm not getting good results with it yet.
This is definetly something I have to think about before putting in a firm order, since I can afford only one of these, and I want it to be the right one!

Tom
 
Tom,

I don't know how much can be drawn from it, but nature seems to have opted for the convex khukuri design in the thorn, the fang, the beak, and the claw.

Examples of nature's use of a concave "blade" escape me, although I'm sure some must exist.

Chris
 
Hey guys, what about a Yataghan? There was some interest, but not enough so far. Maybe it can be a reality. I have done some test cutting with an antique yataghan, and it is a dream! Slices well, and you can stab real well also.
 
Broken Arrow mentioned yataghans... Well, I've been doing a few experiments, including making prototypes, and they've confirmed my previous belief that the yataghan is as near perfection as you're likely to get in an imperfect world...

As previous posters have said, there are two 'ideal' cutting profiles, concave & convex; the trick is to combine both in the same blade in such a way that both profiles are brought into play in the same cut.

For my #4 prototype, I moved away a little from the traditional yataghan shape by exaggerating slightly both the convex and concave curves. I ended up with a 20" blade of uniform 1.5" width, 0.225" thick at the hilt, tapering to 0.195" two inches from the point. The concave curve is slightly less curved than a sirupati and extends 16" along the blade; the convex upsweep in the last 4" means that the point is level with the top of the spine where it meets the hilt. The spine itself is flanged to a thickness of 3/8". Point of balance is 3" forward of the hilt, and the centre of percussion (the point that impacts the target first) is exactly on the point where the concave section ends and the convex begins. The material used is truck spring (probably not Mercedes-Benz, but you can't have everything in this life...) hardened at orange heat and tempered in transmission oil to blue on the spine and dark straw on the cutting edge.

Weight is 2lb 5oz, including the rather fanciful S-shaped cross and 8.25" banana-shaped full-tang grip (these items being to suit my personal preference and rather weedy frame...)

It's not the prettiest blade ever; but I spent a day and a half slashing through dense brambles and saplings up to 3" thick; and it holds an edge and does it ever cut... I've clamped it in a post-vise and tried to bend it sideways; the T-flange on the spine makes it exceptionally rigid. I don't think it'd be possible to break the sucker without a lot of careful thought and effort.

I think a yataghan made according to this pattern or something similar by the HI kamis would be pretty close to the perfect cutting tool, either as a tool or as a weapon.

If anybody's interested, I can take photos, if someone else is prepared to scan and post them
 
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