Hamon

S.Shepherd

S.Shepherd

Joined
Feb 23, 2002
Messages
166
Ok, I have a question for any of you hardcore, japanese style makers.
What makes/defines a good hamon ? Evry time I see this question come up..all of a sudden I think I'm in "into to speaking Japanese" class.
DSC00012.jpg

I made this blade about 4 years ago, hand sanded it up to about 2000grit ( it;s 1095, water quenched) and I really would like to see more activity. Oh, this things been dropped and skuffed up a bit--the polish did look better :D
 
When it comes to Japanese swords, I know "enough", as that is my passion.

This link will give you the outline of how/what is involved when polishing a sword, and the types of natural stone used to do so. This is traditional method sword polishing, which brings out the hamon in the later/finer polish work of the blade. You don't need or want to start in the early stages of course. :)

Uchigumori and onwards pretty much will give some example.

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/togi,process.html

Tim
 
I guess the first part of the question was asking what to look for in a good Hamon...are there different parts?
 
Depends on the hamon really. Hamon will have different shapes or pattern occuring to them, some more desirable than others.

If you want detail in the hamon, it is the Nie and Nioi (particles in the hamon) that should display with a proper polish. The "specs" seen in the pic below.

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/imageEFR.JPG

Tim
 
This was discussed quite a bit recently in another thread about 1095. From my understanding, there are a few factors involved:
1) The steel itself. Traditional Japanese swordmakers may have used all sorts of their own proprietary stuff (tamahagane, I think), so just the content of the steel makes a big difference. Also, the refinement of the grain seems to be a huge issue, which is why forged knives tend to have better hamon than stock removal. Nick Wheeler made it pretty clear in that post that 1095 should go through like 6 cycles of normalization, etc, too, to refine the grain.
2) Method: sanding is never going to produce a hamon as nice as a traditionally polished sword. They use all sorts of stones and methods that are aimed at bringing out the differences between the hard and soft steels. Others stated that sanding sort of smooshes the steel and "smears" it to a certain extent, rather than polishing it to accentuate the hamon.
3) Quenching medium- this wasn't discussed, but from what I've seen, water-quenching produces a more active hamon than oil. Also, it sounds like 1080 and even 1050 may produce better hamon than 1095. I think 1084 does a little better than 1095 in my personal experience.

I think the pic you posted looks pretty good, for what it's worth!
 
I guess maybe I didn't communicate the question as I was hoping for.Are there diffrent types of hamon? what is most desireable?
Maybe Kevin can chime in, but I think "normalizing the grain" 6 times would be pretty drastic.
To say that. "which is why forged knives tend to have better hamon than stock removal" show me proof.
Explain to me the difference between "polishing" and "sanding"
"2) Method: sanding is never going to produce a hamon as nice as a traditionally polished sword. They use all sorts of stones and methods that are aimed at bringing out the differences between the hard and soft steels. Others stated that sanding sort of smooshes the steel and "smears" it to a certain extent, rather than polishing it to accentuate the hamon."
While I have no intent on invading on the realms of the traditional japanese makers, I would like some insite.
Dealing in absolutes will always burn you.
 
The difference between sanding and polishing (Japanese style) is in the stroke.Hand sanding is usually done in a back and forth stroke,which pulls the softer steel back and forth microscopically.Polishing is done with stones and compounds -ALL DONE IN A ONE DIRECTION STROKE. This not only abrades the steel without blurring the hamon,but it burnishes the hard steel to accentuate the difference in the hardness,visually.It also insures a very smooth and flat surface,which will reflect the light rays better than a random surface like sanding makes.
It is a science in itself to hand polish Japanese blades,and many do not go to that extreme.I tip my hat to those who do.
All that said,you should be able to get a good hamon with careful hand sanding - assuming that the hamon is there sufficiently to start.Many people expect a hamon to automatically appear on every regular quenched blade,and can't understand what it takes to create one.
 
Traditional Japanese polishing and Western hand sanding have very little in coomon. Everything, right down to the stones themselves, and different. Western abrasives are very hard, and have a very sharp grain. Traditional stones, even as coarse as arato, aren't as hard, and have a rounder particulate construction. Western polishing attempts to create a shiny mirror polish, whereas traditional polishing 'scrubs' the steel, and creates a three dimentional surface that reflects and refracts light completely differently, letting you see into the activities in the steel.

What kind of hamon? Basically, you have hamon based in nie, and nioi, and all bets are off from there. Traditional patterns are fairly well defined, and inclusively innumerable. Something as simple as a basic notare (wavy) lends itself immediately to ko-notare (slightly wavy), ko-gunome notare, etc.

The purpose of the hamon is anything but cosmentic. The fact that it looks good is incedental to the fact that it *works* well. The Japanese have made a study of this particular attribute for just over 1,000 years now.
 
There is some great information contained in this thread (and the links).

The reason I dislike vinegar as an etchant is due to it's propensity to almost immediately rust the blade. Whereby FC forms a grey oxide ...vinegar forms a red/orange rust (yeah, yeah, I know ...rust is an oxide too, but it's not an oxide I'm in any particular hurry to cultivate) :)
 
I'll be honest, I do it beacuse to me it adds another level of aesthethic creativity to my knives. I don't think the properties of differential heat treating make much of a difference on a knife with a blade of 2-3" long! Unless, that is, someone is doing something drastically inappropriate with the knife to begin with.
 
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