Hamon

beanbag

beanbag

Joined
Apr 1, 2009
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I know most of the posters here are busy blade smiths, but I have a quick question.

Though I know what a hamon looks like, what exactly is it? Is it just for show, or something else?

Thanks in advance,

Beanbag:thumbup:
 
The hamon is the visible line between the hardened and unhardened metal in a knife. It looks pretty, but it's a byproduct of a functional difference in blade temper.
 
Vege-Taco said:
The hamon is the visible line between the hardened and unhardened metal in a knife. It looks pretty, but it's a byproduct of a functional difference in blade temper.
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He is absolutely correct. It is basically for show, and is a very, very nice effect for some knives. also, it can be a bit of an ego booster, if you know what i mean.... :rolleyes:
 
I think it would be better to say a functional difference in blade hardness. The blade is hardened differently and then tempered. The martensite rich edge gives way to a martensite pearlite mix the closer you get to the spine. And yes I agree there is little practical use for a hamon but boy it is sure purdy.
 
I've been thinking about this for a while and am wondering how different etching Damascus is?

Obviously a hamon and Damascus are two totally different animals done for different reasons, but both are highlighted for aesthetic reasons
 
I don't know that a hamon is a basically useless feature at all. It still serves the same purpose it was invented for- that is, it's a method to achieve a hard edge with a soft back, for durability.

Etching a hamon, in my experience, is more subtle and difficult than etching damascus. The process of revealing a hamon can take huge amounts of time, if one wants to bring out the details as much as possible. The variables are always at least slightly different from blade to blade. It takes attention to the individual blade, and what its needs are.
 
Hamons mostly impress other knife makers. John Q. Public thinks the steel has a flaw in it.

Pronunciation - I've been saying the word with the accent on the first syllable, but at a knife show last weekend everyone (well, two or three) was saying it haam-own with the accent on the second syllable.

- Paul Meske
 
Hamon basically produces the same characteristics as a hardened blade with a soft spine draw or an edge quench. Hardness at the edge and toughness at the spine. It just is a little fancier than a straight line from an edge quench, and takes a lot of extra work to make "pop".
 
For me it is very functional, in my experience it helps prevent warping during quench, helps prevent the dreaded tip dip, and keeps areas I dont want to harden from hardening. I for one dont like the ricasso shoulders hardened, as in my experience i dont want any chance of riser or stress of any kind in the tang/ricasso shoulder area. I also dont necassarily want the spine "hard" and prefer to use clay or differential heat to do this over the post quench torch method.

I do however see alot of VERY narrow hardening lines, and some even having the "hamon" dip down extremely close or even into the cutting edge, to me that is a major "flaw". If I get a hamon that is too "shallow" I simply start the process over.

I also see alot of folks that really need to focus more on the fundamentals of building a knife before jumping off into trying to chase a "hamon".
 
RMLamey said:
I do however see alot of VERY narrow hardening lines, and some even having the "hamon" dip down extremely close or even into the cutting edge, to me that is a major "flaw". If I get a hamon that is too "shallow" I simply start the process over.

I also see alot of folks that really need to focus more on the fundamentals of building a knife before jumping off into trying to chase a "hamon".
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I agree with both comments. A hamon the dips to the edge is a faulty blade- part of the edge is literally not hardened.
 
Great posts thus far from some great Makers! I have to admit that I have been "Chasing the Hamon" for a while now. The aesthetics are what draw me to the addiction. But as stated it does serve a purpose, old time Japanese smiths brought the hamon out just by polishing (no etchant). I feel Temper line is a better description.

Lonepine, I made the same mistake on the pronunciation!
 
RyanW said:
Great posts thus far from some great Makers! I have to admit that I have been "Chasing the Hamon" for a while now. The aesthetics are what draw me to the addiction. But as stated it does serve a purpose, old time Japanese smiths brought the hamon out just by polishing (no etchant). I feel Temper line is a better description.

Lonepine, I made the same mistake on the pronunciation!
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the term hamon refers to the visable aspect of the blade, not the process. I'm thinking it would be better described as a "quench line" and if done with some type of insulator (clay etc) then I'd call it a hamon. No real reason to use a japanese term if it wasn't done in a japanese way, IMO.
 
SShepherd said:
the term hamon refers to the visable aspect of the blade, not the process. I'm thinking it would be better described as a "quench line" and if done with some type of insulator (clay etc) then I'd call it a hamon. No real reason to use a japanese term if it wasn't done in a japanese way, IMO.
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Great Point Sean! So you can have a differential HT but no visual Hamon or Quench Line? unless you choose to bring it out in the finish.
 
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RyanW said:
Great Point Sean! So you can have a differential HT but no visual Hamon or Quench Line? unless you choose to bring it out in the finish.
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try it, depending on how you finish it. A buffed mirror polish will make it almost invisable in my exp.
 
RMLamey said:
I do however see alot of VERY narrow hardening lines, and some even having the "hamon" dip down extremely close or even into the cutting edge, to me that is a major "flaw". If I get a hamon that is too "shallow" I simply start the process over.

I also see alot of folks that really need to focus more on the fundamentals of building a knife before jumping off into trying to chase a "hamon".
Click to expand...

Quoted for truth.

I think that the general public has often enough been informed to some extent, however erroneously, about the Japanese sword to understand a basic explanation of hamon. They may already sort of know what it is, if not the Japanese word for it.

The Japanese use(d) mild etchants at times in their polishing sequences. And, like some of the techniques we use now, certain abrasives were selected to highlight different aspects or areas of the blade, as well as treatments such as nugui- which is a very fine iron oxide slurry used to selectively darken the area above the hamon. Ferric chloride or other etchants produce this effect currently.

So, I don't think that etching as part of the process precludes the use of the term "hamon." Hamon, I would think, is essentially a description of the manipulated grain structure of the steel, and as mentioned above, should imply that the method of manipulation involves a clay type process. Or, a partially insulated blade going into the quench, for the most general guideline.

A quench line is imparted when the blade is only partially inserted into the quenching medium. Temper line would imply that the line is a visible indication of differing temper- which is not so. I've not tried etching a blade that was full quenched and variably tempered, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't show a "line." Anyone try that before?

Then again, I wonder what I'd technically call a blade differentially quenched by virtue of its own varying thickness from edge to spine? I've seen that referred to as "hamon."
 
Salem;

Everyrhing I've seen says that "traditional polishing" never employs the use of an acid or etchant to bring out a hamon.

http://www.ksky.ne.jp/~sumie99/togi,process.html

"Be careful, some polishers use acids or chemical treatment on polishing process to trick the view.
They emphasize hamon pattern and layer pattern, and its view is indecent and unnatural.
However skilful it is, they never lift the blade quality up, only damage the steel.
Such work is done for purpose to deceive beginners.
It is very bad for serious sword lovers.
Good polishing never use any acid."


http://www.swordpolisher.com/Schedule.html

"Any polisher you come across who does not have a significant waiting list is not to be trusted with your blades. They are either NOT doing completely traditional hand polishing (i.e. sand paper and acid!)"

I realize this applys to "nihonto" and seems to be that traditional way it's done. Do you have another reference i can read?
 
What should we refer to the previously termed hamon? Quench pattern? I won't call it a temper line because it has nothing to do with the temper....
 
call it a hamon if it's done with someform of unsulator to keep a desired area from hardening.

Hamon 刃文, = "blade pattern"
literal translation
 
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