Hamons: Anyone ever try this?

jhiggins

jhiggins

Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Messages
3,258
I was thinking about how I have quenched for hamons (temper lines, transition lines, crystal zoning, wtf-ever we are calling it these days) in the past, and I was thinking of perhaps trying a new approach. I was wondering if anyone has ever tried using Satanite ~PLUS~ PBC to get a hamon? Here's what I was thinking:

Apply satanite to blade, allow to dry. Heat blade to 500 degrees and shake on some Satanite. Return to the oven and ramp up to desired crit. Remove and quench.

Think that would work? Do you fellas think a hamon would still form using this method? I know the PBC doesn't do much in the way of insulating from the rapid quenching like the satanite will. I'm very interested to hear form anyone who has tried this, if it's worth the extra effort, and what steels lend themselves to this treatment.
 
Higgy, I just don't think it would make any difference plus I'm not a big fan of PBC. The few times I've tried it its caused me more work and its suppossed to be the otherway around.
 
Raymond Richard said:
Higgy, I just don't think it would make any difference plus I'm not a big fan of PBC. The few times I've tried it its caused me more work and its suppossed to be the otherway around.
Click to expand...

Really? I love the stuff.
 
Higgy,
Yes, you can. As a matter of fact, I am just completing a 10 1/2" Southwestern Bowie that was done this way.

######

Ray,
Are you using your forge to heat the blade? If so, then I might mention most of the guys I know who use their forge or a torch to heat the blade get less than stellar results.

I think that it's because the forge and/or torch either get things too hot, too fast, or leave some areas not hot enough. It really requires an even heat that goes right to the core to work.

Obviously on any areas that aren't hot enough the compound doesn't melt and adhere properly. Conversely, any area that is too hot will cause the compound to either dance right off the blade or bubble up and trap oxygen between the compound and the steel. Those areas are going to scale up and pit.

######

In my tutorial I discuss soak time and temperature, but I don't really explain how to get the best coverage. It takes a little practice but here's what I do:

First, for best results, use a heat treat oven. I place a piece of stainless heat treating wrap in the bottom of the oven to catch any of the compound that might run off. I don't want the stuff in the bottom of my oven.

In my case, the blade is heated for 30 minutes to an hour to get a good even heat all the way through. This is probably overkill, but it works for me. The effective temperature range is 500 degrees F. to about 580 degrees F. At about 600 degrees F. you will start to have problems. It's so hot that the compound will dance and slide right off the blade, or create air pockets trapping oxygen.

Sprinkle the thinner areas that lose heat the fastest first. I start at the tip and sprinkle the edge, working my way towards the ricasso. The blade is held horizontally, slightly edge up (at an angle, not straight up). This allows the compound to run towards the spine as it melts. Move quickly and as soon as you get to the ricasso flip the blade and start working tip to ricasso near the edge on the other side. Hit the spine in the thinner areas as well.

Next quickly work the bevels on both sides getting right up to the spine. Flip the blade edge down and sprinkle the rest of the spine. Then finish off with the ricasso which is the thickest part of the knife.

It's much easier to get coverage on a 4" hunter than it is a 10" Bowie, but usually I can go from heat treating to a 400 grit hand rub after testing the blade.
 
Here's a closeup of one right out of the quench. This went in the oven at a 400 grit finish. As you can see, it's quite clean and scale/pit free.

file-test2.jpg


The blade was edge quenched. That's why you see the compound still on part of the blade. The remaining compound is removed by placing the blade in a container and pouring boiling water over it.

This is another area that gives some folks trouble. You want lots of boiling water and you want a high rolling boil, not just a few bubbles. It will dissolve the compound like it was sugar.
 
Guys (Higgy, Terry, anyone), how do you actually sprinkle the PBC on? I've had trouble with PBC before, but I may not be applying it right. I've tried putting the hot part directly into the compund, and I've tried sprinkling it without a screen (straight out of the can). Both ways got so much compound on the part that it clumped up and didn't melt. It's not lumpy in the can and it's fairly new, so I think the compound's still okay, but I have yet to make it work.

-Allin
 
F. Allin Kahrl said:
Guys (Higgy, Terry, anyone), how do you actually sprinkle the PBC on? I've had trouble with PBC before, but I may not be applying it right. I've tried putting the hot part directly into the compund, and I've tried sprinkling it without a screen (straight out of the can). Both ways got so much compound on the part that it clumped up and didn't melt. It's not lumpy in the can and it's fairly new, so I think the compound's still okay, but I have yet to make it work.

-Allin
Click to expand...

I was using one of those shakers you see in the pizza houses. You know - the kind they use for the red pepper flakes. It dropped on the floor and smashed into a million pieces, and now I use a plastic jar with a metal screw-top lid. I poked a few holes in the lid. Works good! Just use an old baking pan under the blade when you apply the PBC. Screen what falls off through a sieve and back into the jar to reuse.
 
On the first page of the tutorial I show what I use.

compound.jpg


It's just a discarded spice bottle. It's the same principle as the pizza house shaker that Higgy mentioned.
 
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