hand blade finishing

J

jmar595

Joined
Apr 1, 2007
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84
I am having some real trouble getting all the scratches out. Does anyone else hand finish?
 
Yes, I start grinding at 60 grit, then 240 and finish grind at 400 grit. Then hand finish with 400gt wet and dry. If I have missed any deeper scratches I go back to 240 wet and dry to get them out. Use any of the light spray on oils as a lube for your paper. If your finger tips don't hurt you are not working hard enough. There are no short cuts to a good hand rubbed surface finish.

peter
 
i hand finish all my knives (i have some up for sale now so there a pictures) but i start at 50 then 80 then 120 then 220 then 240 then 400 then 500 then 600depending on the finish i go to 800 then on to 1200 then on to 1500 then i have some 2500 but i really dont like mirror finished knives...
i agree... if your fingers dont hurt... you arnt working hard enough. also to make sure your blade stays flaty us a "block" i started using a file (becasue it was flat and long) with the sandpaper arund it... not i use precision ground bar stock. it keeps your fingers from making the blade "wavy" anything flat that you can use will work. make it fit your needs and post picutres when you are done.
good luck!
~Chris
 
It just takes time.

From the grinder and belt sanding, I get to about 240 grit.

Hand starts with any fine filing, then I do wetdry 220 grit (which is finer cutting than a fresh 240 belt, it seems) and go to 320, 400, and depending on finish, to 600, 1500.

Paitence. PAtience. Patience. It takes time, a lot of time, and a lot of sanding jigs. I have french curves, striaght and wide, straight and narrow, probably a dozen sanding jiggies total. And even then I end up touching up some of the niggly bits for 45 minutes on some grits with pinky pressure.... or an eraser with sandpaper on it.

Changing directions with each grit REALLY does matter, too.
 
Changing direction when you change grits is the key.....and making sure you got ALL the scratches from the previous grit out.
Mace
 
Ahhhhhhh...."that last scratch"....Ed Fowler wrote an entire article on this for Blade Magazine. "That last scratch" becomes an obsession. Eventually, for some knives I use 10X magnification to try and find "that last scratch" between each change in grit size!
 
I need to get an optivisor real bad. I am also going to get some blue layout fluid to use also. it brings out the scratches that are still there after you think you are done and want to move on to a higher grit. I have tried the 45deg method, it works. But, you cannot get the same amount of elbow grease into it compared to sanding the length of the blade. As far as that one scratch, you have to go back down in grit till you can make it disapperar, then work your way back up to where you want it. Some makers sand past what they want for a finish, then go back to be absolutely sure there is only one grit of scratches showing.
 
gixxer said:
I need to get an optivisor real bad. I am also going to get some blue layout fluid to use also. it brings out the scratches that are still there after you think you are done and want to move on to a higher grit.
Click to expand...

I use the red layout dye instead of the blue. I find that red shows up better on polished steel than the blue does. I also put red layout dye on my file work, then go back over the file work lightly with my files to clean the dye out of the grooves. This makes the file work stand out boldly so that I can see how evenly I have made everything. If one groove is slightly larger or smaller than the rest, I'll see it right away, since it will stand out boldly against the red background of the unfiled portions.

You can see how the size and shape of the filework is easy to see with the red layout dye as a background in the photo. You can see in the picture that the filed grooves at the top of the photo are slightly larger than the ones at the bottom and sides. I had to go back over it and touch them up.

I get my layout dye from Applied Industrial Technologies. They have branches just about everywhere. I use dykem brand with the brush in the cap.

Ickie
 
I do mostly small slipjoints and a few linerlocked folders.
Hand finish...yes. I start with a 60 or 80 belt...work up to an 800 grit belt, then go to a worn out cork backed belt which was 600-800 grit...worn out is the key. Load that belt with green chromxe rouge (Steve Johnson does this so wel, he says just a very few minutes with a buffer...and his knives are usually mirror finished..and as close to perfectly made as any I've seen)
Once you get to the GCR on cork, it is even easier to see missed scratches...
go back to 600 or 800, remove scratches, hopefully, the cork/rouge belt again....to close to headed for a mirror finish....then start hand rubbing with 240 wrapped over the end of a squared piece of aluminumif flat ground, shaped hard rubber if hollow ground. The first few hand strokes are across the belt direction, so if any grinding scratches are there, they show pretty quickly. Then back to the 800 and the cork/rouge...then hand rub again....then assuming no grinding scratches show 240..400...600...800...1000...1500...2000...2500.. I don't always go to 2500, personally like a blade stroked to 800 or so...then VERY light buff on lightly Fabuluster filled wheel..with the direction of the hand rub...I use a 1" wheel on a Dremel tool or rotary tool for that.
The hand rubbing/regrinding/hand rubbing/etc. probably takes me 1/2-2/3 of the total time to get the blade from a piece of steel to a finished blade.
As a collector and as a maker, I know it is one of the major attributes I look for in a collected knife, and do my best to achieve in one I make.
Oh and about that soreness in you fingers (and hands, wrists,arms,shoulders)
its just part of doing the best you can on a knife...Good Luck!
 
Does anybody hand finish? Damn straight - take a look at the pics of Nick Wheelers JS presentation knives. Nick is the king of hand finishing in my opinion (even if it does take him forever). When he ships a knife he has looked at it 500 times under different light and done it over 20 times.
 
There are some crazy guys out there like John Perry who has a stash of 4000+ grit paper for hand sanding.:D I go to at least 1000 on most of mine and sometimes to 2000. At 2000 wet, I get what could best be described as a slightly hazy mirror finish on unetched W2 and 1075. The couple of blades that I have etched were fisnished to 1500-2000, but they shine about like a 600 grit finish even though they are very smooth. I hit mine with Simichrome after afinsh sanding and t really makes the balde shine. I have discovere that the infamous "last scratch" usually resides either right up by the plunge cuts or right out at the tip:mad:
 
When I hand finish, I use the cast iron table on my bandsaw rather than small sanding blocks. I fold a sheet of paper in half, clamp it to the table, shoot some WD 40 on it, then put my shoulders into it. Hand sanding goes way faster that way. It's way easier than sanding blocks and holding them and the paper wrapped around them. When I wear ouit one side of the paper I turn it over and go back at it.

Gene
 
jdm61 said:
There are some crazy guys out there like John Perry who has a stash of 4000+ grit paper for hand sanding.:D I have discovere that the infamous "last scratch" usually resides either right up by the plunge cuts or right out at the tip:mad:
Click to expand...
4000 grit???:eek: crazy. And those last scratches at the plunge? Those are the WORST to get rid of cause you really dont have much space to really get that elbow grease in there to get it out. I guess I will try both red and blue to see what's up. I was going to get the Dykem brand also.

Ickie, do you have a photo of that filed guard completed? Looks pretty interesting!!
 
Another handy sanding device, is a 1/8 inch bar of mild steel 11/4 inches wide
by 16 inches long. I wrap the middle of the bar with "sticky backed" sand paper [ you can find it at Lowes in 80, 120 and 220 grits] The steel bar gives you a lot of leverage, change the paper often; As soon as it gets dull.

This beats hell out of using small sanding blocks.

Fred
 
HALLELUJAH!! Thanks all for the good advise. I am on 320 grit right now, dinner break. I have finally got past the 220. Didn't ever think I could get those scratches out with the next grit (220), thought they were too deep. I'm gonna go broke just on sandpaper. Anyone know somewhere to get it at bulk? The highest grit I can find in the stores is 600. What git equivalent is 0000 steel wool? Didn't know it went to 4000 grit. That is insane.
 
Fred.Rowe said:
Another handy sanding device, is a 1/8 inch bar of mild steel 11/4 inches wide
by 16 inches long. I wrap the middle of the bar with "sticky backed" sand paper [ you can find it at Lowes in 80, 120 and 220 grits] The steel bar gives you a lot of leverage, change the paper often; As soon as it gets dull.

This beats hell out of using small sanding blocks.

Fred
Click to expand...

I use a 1 x 1/2 x 12 bar of cutlers brass, which I discovered after purchasing it, much to my chagrin, has "no class":D For 220 and 400 grit, I use 2 inch shop rolls and just wrap the piece around the bar. When one spot gets dull, I just shift the paper. I use Windex for lubricant.
 
jmar595 said:
HALLELUJAH!! Thanks all for the good advise. I am on 320 grit right now, dinner break. I have finally got past the 220. Didn't ever think I could get those scratches out with the next grit (220), thought they were too deep. I'm gonna go broke just on sandpaper. Anyone know somewhere to get it at bulk? The highest grit I can find in the stores is 600. What git equivalent is 0000 steel wool? Didn't know it went to 4000 grit. That is insane.
Click to expand...
Some folks use sandpaper like it's free. That has been a popular saying lately in some threads actually. I believ Phillip Patton is one of em. You can get a whole lot accomplished faster when you change your paper more often. As far as finding the stuff, one place to start is supergrit.com. Somebody else who has done more internet legwork might have a site that is cheaper, so who knows. I actually get my paper from an abrasives supply shop here in the local area.
 
jdm61 said:
I use a 1 x 1/2 x 12 bar of cutlers brass, which I discovered after purchasing it, much to my chagrin, has "no class":D For 220 and 400 grit, I use 2 inch shop rolls and just wrap the piece around the bar. When one spot gets dull, I just shift the paper. I use Windex for lubricant.
Click to expand...

When I first ran across it, this idea, seemed like too simple a solution, to an old challenge. But I quickly found that you could apply a lot of pressure with the bar, I soon adopted this technique as part of my finish sanding. I'll give the Windex a try.

Fred
 
Most auto parts stores carry wet-or-dry up to 600 grit in bulk and some carry it up to 2000 grit. Since all of my knives are damascus, I hand sand up to 400 grit. I usually finish on the belt up to 400 grit and then hand sand at 400 grit. It usually takes 1/2 sheet per knife with a 4" blade.
Thanks,
Del
 
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