Hand forged Hawk, how perfect does it need to be?

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rlewpolar

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Oct 4, 2022
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Recently received a forged hammer poll hawk from a well-known American hawk maker (and recommended on this forum) and was quite disappointed. The head is very uneven and if you look at the edge head on, the edge slants obliquely (not straight up and down). The edge grind is also uneven and wavy and even the hammer part doesn’t seem even and square.

I was surprised and am wondering if this is just the nature of the beast (hand forging) and maybe I am expecting too much from an individual forging stuff the old fashioned way. I will say that I also recently ordered a hawk from a European maker (also recommended on this forum) and it is absolute perfection. Everything is straight and even and the finish couldn’t be better.

So, what would you do with this recent hammer poll? Send it back? Use it like a total beater and look elsewhere for an aesthetically nicer one? What are other people’s experience with hand forged tools?
 
Ye
F1fan said:
For me it would depend on the price. For a hand forged hawk at $100 I’m expecting a functional tool with little effort given to appearance, start getting to 200-300 I start to value appearance a lot more, and north of $350 and I have very high expectations.
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Yes, it was about $250. I expected better aesthetics. Think I am sending it back. Thanks for the input
 
irsh said:
Any pictures?
Is it 10 CS hawks* worth?



*Standard unit of tomahawk value.
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Definitely not! I have 3 Cold Steel Hawks (Trench, Warhawk and Recon hawk) here and the forgings are all perfect. And the edges are perfect also, like someone really took the time.

Ok, hard to capture it in pictures but here is my main complaint. Looking at the edge directly face on, the edge is not straight (up and down) but rather slanted, like the grind is twisted.

Also, the edge itself, it’s uneven and wavy. Not only is it not symmetrical but the very edge itself undulates. I’m not the world’s greatest knife sharpener but I’ve done way better on my Worksharp belt sharpener the first time I ever wreaked havoc on some old kitchen knives . Again, hard to capture in pictures. I will say, the curly hickory handle is nice but that’s about the only thing I was happy with 🥵

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Slight twists of the bit are pretty common on hand-forged axes, and won't be noticed in actual use. However, if you don't care for it I'd say go ahead and contact the maker regarding it. In upper price points that should theoretically be one of the biggest things they check for if making a premium product. If charging lower bracket prices I'd consider that as normal, but higher prices are generally going into the extra time it takes to check and correct stuff like that, cosmetic as it may be.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Slight twists of the bit are pretty common on hand-forged axes, and won't be noticed in actual use. However, if you don't care for it I'd say go ahead and contact the maker regarding it. In upper price points that should theoretically be one of the biggest things they check for if making a premium product. If charging lower bracket prices I'd consider that as normal, but higher prices are generally going into the extra time it takes to check and correct stuff like that, cosmetic as it may be.
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Thanks, appreciate the input. Here is another hand forged hawk I have and this is one where absolute attention was paid to the small details. I’ve contacted this second maker and he is going to make my next hammer poll after this one goes back44AC143D-8E74-4463-A439-AF384B93148C.jpeg
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Haha, and just to show the best bargain in the hawk world, the Cold Steel War Hawk. Admittedly not the same thing as a friction fit traditional hawk but absolutely perfect at $40. Sometimes I wonder why I bother with the higher end stuff 🤔

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The Cold Steel pieces are either drop forged or cut from a flat slab, and so neither are prone to twisted bits; really apples and oranges for the purposes of this discussion. However, some production methods such as those that form the eye and bit separately are prone to introducing a slight twist between the two, and hand forging inherently does, to the point where on many historical hand-forged tools the handedness of a smith can often be guessed with fair accuracy above that of raw statistical probability by the twist or skew introduced to it in forging.

I have a few Rinaldi axes and hatchets in my personal arsenal that were forged using forging presses that form the eye and bit separately from one another that have bits skewed more than I considered salable and kept them for my own use, and can at least assure you that functionally I've never once run into issues as a result of it. Even in those more extreme cases you inherently end up adjusting to it subconsciously and still end up cutting nice and straight. But those are lower price bracket axes for what they are, and made with little care to aesthetics vs function.

If you're talking over $100 the blemish is something worth at least seeking a discount for if you can live with it, or returning it if you can't. I reckon the maker won't have too much trouble finding someone to take it off their hands if it gets sent back.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
The Cold Steel pieces are either drop forged or cut from a flat slab, and so neither are prone to twisted bits; really apples and oranges for the purposes of this discussion. However, some production methods such as those that form the eye and bit separately are prone to introducing a slight twist between the two, and hand forging inherently does, to the point where on many historical hand-forged tools the handedness of a smith can often be guessed with fair accuracy above that of raw statistical probability by the twist or skew introduced to it in forging.

I have a few Rinaldi axes and hatchets in my personal arsenal that were forged using forging presses that form the eye and bit separately from one another that have bits skewed more than I considered salable and kept them for my own use, and can at least assure you that functionally I've never once run into issues as a result of it. Even in those more extreme cases you inherently end up adjusting to it subconsciously and still end up cutting nice and straight. But those are lower price bracket axes for what they are, and made with little care to aesthetics vs function.

If you're talking over $100 the blemish is something worth at least seeking a discount for if you can live with it, or returning it if you can't. I reckon the maker won't have too much trouble finding someone to take it off their hands if it gets sent back.
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Thanks, good information on the twist issue. We’ll see what the maker says regarding the return. I might consider a discount if he offers one, hadn’t thought of that
 
rlewpolar said:
Ye

Yes, it was about $250. I expected better aesthetics. Think I am sending it back. Thanks for the input
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Yeah, at that price point send it back now. And tell us who made it.

As a last step in the forging process, just before heat treating, it's a simple thing to straighten a twisted bit. If the smith had bothered to check he would have fixed it.
 
F1fan said:
As someone who is about to fork over for a hawk I would also be curious who made it.
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I’m usually careful about not disparaging makers but when people ask, and especially if it aids in purchasing decisions, I’m happy to oblige.

Got this one from Beaver Bill.

The stellar example I also showed to contrast with the Beaver Bill one is a Papstomahawk. Papstomahawk is doing my next hammer poll and the Beaver Bill one is going back
 
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