Hand Protection for Knife/Stick Sparring

Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
46
I have two related questions:

(1) What kind of hand protection do you use during hard stick and knife sparring (this means either with padded sticks/knives or with bare rattan/aluminum blades)? Do you favor hockey gloves or do you prefer something else?

(2) Where is the best place to purchase this type of hand protection (on-line or otherwise)?

I appreciate your input.
 
I use Rollerblade brand inline hockey gloves for stick sparring, they are a little lighter than normal hockey gloves, but still offer very good protection.

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"Peace is not without conflict; it is the ability to cope with conflict" - Leo Giron
www.messerforum.net - the premier German language knife-related web board
 
I prefer Lacrosse gloves for stickfighting- they give me significantly more maneuverability at the wrist and more 'feel' than hockey gloves. You certainly feel shots to your edges of your hand with Lacrosse gloves, though.

Mario

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Gaucho

Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.


 
I like Lacrosse gloves. Try them on and try to find a pair that does NOT have padding going half way up your forearm though.

I personally don't like any of the Hockey gloves that I've seen because they have a hard shell protecting the thumb. This design restricts my wrist movement too much and IMHO gives a false sense of security because of the way it shields the thumb. I hear that not all Hockey gloves are made this way, but I haven't seen any of them.

BTW, if you're just starting into stick sparring wear forearm pads (the soft football style ones work well) for a while ... at least on your weapon hand. As you get more proficient & confident stop wearing them. I know a lot of people like to wear an elbow pad on their weapon arm, but I've never worn one.

Good luck on your excursion into stick fighting.

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton



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Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."




[This message has been edited by Dave Fulton (edited 10-16-2000).]
 
Personally I say dont wear them at all.
Let me get you guys' opinions on this. I have seen footage of many playing with pads, they take strike after strike without any acknowledgement. This doesnt seem very realistic to me. What happens when you get hit in a real fight without your pads, can you continue or will you have to quit from th3 pain. I often use padded sticks but no body pads, htat way you always know when you have been hit.
 
Taomonkey,

How do you know they aren't acknowledging the strikes? There are a few things that could be happening here and I couldn't say which is the case in the footage you've seen without at least seeing it myself.

1.) They might be using very light rattan, which would not penetrate Lacrosse gloves to any great extent. Add adrenaline and they may not be feeling those blows.

2.) They might make a mental note of the blow and what caused it, but continuing on with their sparring for training purposes.

We fall under #2. We tape our sparring sessions, then go back and evaluate them immediately after we finish. As a result, I make a quick mental note when I take a hit and keep going ... only stopping when the match is done or I take a shot that makes me stop or I think is serious enough to warrant taking a break. As a general rule I don't agree with the "point sparring" format where you stop everytime someone lands a blow because I don't think it's very realistic and developes bad habbits.

What one would do in a real fight, without their pads is difficult to say. I fractured a guy's hand in sparring. We were both wearing lacrosse gloves and using heavy rattan. I landed a clean, powerful hand shot. He grunted and then opened up a BIG can of whoop a$$ on me. We finished our match, then he sat out the rest of the session and went to the doc the next day.

I'm in favor of using heavy rattan, and minimal protection (head & hands only), because I feel that it offers the best mix of realism and protection.

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton



------------------
Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."


 
I have done a lot of full contact sparring with padded sticks and no hand protection. While it maintains a certain level of realism, the participants tend to suffer from deep tissue bruises and torn fingernails (though it is better than rattan). Most of the stick and knife sparring that I do now is with minimal head and hand protection. Though I have been fond of hockey gloves, I have never been able to find a pair that worked well for stick sparring for several reasons.
(1) Most hockey gloves make it difficult to grip the stick well, especially during grappling.
(2) Most hockey gloves do not have any kind of closure system at the wrist, which leaves the wrist exposed to shots and allows the glove to come off easily during grappling.
(3) I like to switch the stick between both my right and left hands during sparring (because many people are uncomfortable against a left-handed fighter). I also use my free hand to strike and grapple, but I find it difficult to strike or grapple properly with a bulky hockey glove on. I know some right-handers who will wear a hockey glove on their right, weapon-bearing hand and a grappling glove on the left for punching and grappling. Obviously, this is problematic if you switch hands.
Because of these problems, I generally wear fairly light grappling gloves when sparring with a padded stick or knife. Although they do not offer the protection of hockey gloves, they allow me to punch and grapple well. I have tried it with rattan sticks and aluminum knives, and it can definitely be painful. That is why I am always on the lookout for a good pair of hockey or lacrosse gloves that will allow me to spar full contact that do not overly impede my ability to grip or strike.

In my school, we use a "3 shot" system during stick and knife sparring. If a fighter takes 3 total shots to the head, hand, body, or leg, he is declared incapacitated. For example, if a fighter were hit twice in his weapon hand and once in his leg (3 total hits), he would be out. This type of sparring works best if you have a referee to keep track of the shots and to determine which shots landed "clean." This type of sparring eliminates the tendency that some people have (since they are wearing helmets and gloves) to plant their feet and trade shots at one another's heads. Even with rattan sticks, you will see a fighter charge forward, get hit in the head half a dozen times as he closes the gap, and yet he will "win" the match because he is able to take his opponent down and choke him out. The 3 point system eliminates this kind of counterproductive sparring because said fighter would be out before he ever entered grappling range. The 3 point system, although not 100% realistic (though, what system of sparring can ever be 100% realistic?), is one of the better ways I have seen of conducting stick sparring.

Thanks to everyone for all of the information,
Fedaykin

 
Originally posted by Fedaykin:
In my school, we use a "3 shot" system during stick and knife sparring. ... This type of sparring works best if you have a referee to keep track of the shots and to determine which shots landed "clean." This type of sparring eliminates the tendency that some people have (since they are wearing helmets and gloves) to plant their feet and trade shots at one another's heads. Even with rattan sticks, you will see a fighter charge forward, get hit in the head half a dozen times as he closes the gap, and yet he will "win" the match because he is able to take his opponent down and choke him out. The 3 point system eliminates this kind of counterproductive sparring because said fighter would be out before he ever entered grappling range.

This is an indication of an attitude that is counter productive to using sparring as a developmental tool. The guys who exploit the protective gear are deluding themselves.

After a fighting session we all sit and watch each match on tape as everyone offers input. This is very helpful, but the most important critique comes from within. It's a very introspective process for us. This flows from our philosophy is that sparring is a laboratory where you experiment with your system to validate (or disprove) it's theories. In fact, one of our club t-shirts includes the phrase "Research & Development" ... and that about sums it up.

To do this, however, you MUST let go of your ego because if you're worried about "winning" then you are NOT free to experiment and are more likely to go too far which is when people get hurt.

Respectfully,

Dave Fulton

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Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."


[This message has been edited by Dave Fulton (edited 10-17-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Dave Fulton (edited 10-17-2000).]
 
Dave:

I agree 100% with the idea of video taping sparring sessions. We get someone to videotape our sessions whenever we can, and these tapes are an invaluable asset for evaluating personal development. Our instructors have to go through multiple rounds of full contact weapons-sparring in order to earn (and maintain) certification. When we spar in that setting, we do not use a 3-point system; rather, we spar the full length of the round irrespective of the number of shots landed by the competitors. The 3-point system is merely an alternative to, but not a replacement for, other types of full contact sparring. I agree that sparring must be an egoless endeavor — I have seen too many injuries occur at the hands of guys that thought they had something to prove. It sounds as though you and your training partners go about sparring in a very scientific and practical manner. Thanks for your input.

Fedaykin
 
Originally posted by Fedaykin:

I agree 100% with the idea of video taping sparring sessions. We get someone to videotape our sessions whenever we can, and these tapes are an invaluable asset for evaluating personal development. ...... It sounds as though you and your training partners go about sparring in a very scientific and practical manner.

Fedaykin,

Sometimes the tapes are even a source of endless enjoyment too. You know what I mean ... those special moments when you do something that belongs on the "Funniest Home Videos" TV show or an edition of "Biggest Hits of the NFL" (or whatever they call those tapes).
biggrin.gif


Also, I hope you didn't think that I was saying that your guys have the wrong attitude. I was merely agreeing with your comment about those guys who've distorted full-contact sparring because they just don't get it. For them it's all about them & their ego, so they ruin it for everyone else. It really ticks me off too,
mad.gif
so sometimes I come off a little strong on this topic.

I feel very fortunate to be a part of the group I'm with because I think it's unique. Being a club, as opposed to a commercial school, no one's lively hood is at stake, which allows us to be more selective about who we accept as members. My teacher is a research scientist by profession, so he'd be honored by your last comment by the way.

Respectfully

Dave Fulton



------------------
Full Contact Martial Arts Association.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."
 
Oooh, I've been away too long, one of my favorite topics have re-surfaced. Fedaykin, you're in my neck of the woods I noticed. Wanna get together and work out tonight? We get together Wednesday nights and Sunday mornings, I have alot of gear that you can try out if you want. WEKAF gloves, couple of different hockey gloves, couple of different types of mask, and a few different types of sparring knifes. E-mail me, maybe we can get together or something. BTW, we have an equipment review at http://www.fullcontacthi.com talking about various equipment. What type of knife sparring do you guys do? Aluminum daggers, wooden knife or dowel, or padded knife. Hockey gloves? Mask? Did you fight at the Solo Baston Tournament? Give me an e-mail.

Take Care,

Chad W. Getz chad@fullcontacthi.com
Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com
 
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