Hand sharpening practice suggestions?

[tuffluv]

I'm afraid to practice hand sharpening on my knives for fear that I'll completely mess them up. I don't have a sharpening system so determining the bevel angles will be a challenge as well.

I've heard people say to practice on butter knives. Any other suggestions?

Also, are there inexpensive tricks or tools a beginner can use to set the bevel angle?

thanks!

 

[bt93]

Pick up a Buck for cheap. It's a good blade and forgiving, if you mess up the angle you can correct it with any rough stone. It can get razor sharp so you'll know you got it right. For further practice just hit it against a rock or concrete and destroy the edge.You can get a lot of practice out of a Buck.

 

[DeadboxHero]

When I first learned how to sharpen I found a cheap combo stone for $10 at an Asian foods store. I then bought a cheap $10 kitchen aid chef knife. I then used a sharpie and colored the bevel and checked my scratches after a few passes.
It took me a lot of patients and practice but now I can match any bevel by hand and eye no sharpie.

There is a steep learning curve but it really pays off. Free hand is the fastest way to sharpen and profile edges and is very rewarding.

 

[Bob6794]

You can buy a basic norton economy stone (black/grey is their silicon carbide and is 6in, their tan/brown 8in is india) or pick up a craftsman stone which is black/grey and a thing of black compound which has a yellow cap and marked as #1 I want to say and goes for $2 there as well. Or a bit higher end and pick up a Norton Crystolon (silicon carbide) or India.That would set you up for basic sharpening, than look into how to build a strop. You can do that with MDF, balsa, leather, or what I do paper wrapped tightly around a stone and various other methods.

I would add the DMT Aligner guide to help keep you consistent while your learning since you can use them with a normal stone. A cheap drawel liner folder up can help prop up the stone to the level you want and keep it from moving. You don't need specific sharpening oil as it's usually mineral oil anyway. I personally use water or water with a drop of dish soap in it. Sharpie up the bevel so you know your hitting it. And buy a jewlers loupe so you can see the bevel closer as it will reveal a lot of what is going on when you know what to look for and will help immensely. Also keep things basic when starting out so my recommendation is the silicon carbide stone with a coarse/fine side as it's coarser than an india, and more forgiving than a diamond. And just the black compound or maybe the green to help refine or bring back the edge. My personal preference is the black compound which is courser due to it being more willing to bring back a edge and keeping me from taking a knife back to a stone. If you add too many steps to it with various grits you will be too focused on taking it through the grit range than getting it sharp at the lower grits and may overlook things and in the end just over complicate things while learning.

For knives a kitchen paring knife is good, you can use the ones in your kitchen or use some dedicated ones. For dedicated ones you can pick up the Opinel, Old Hickory, and Victorinox ones to name a few which all have pretty decent steal. Just keep in mind if you buy extremely cheap knives to learn on with no name steals and bad heat treats they may react badly to sharpening compared to something better and not want to take an edge even if you do your job right as a sharpener. I have a few dollar store knives I bought to experiment on because they were cheap and they are very picky on what I use to put a edge on them, they seem to only play nice with ceramic stones for some reason not diamond, india, or silicon carbide so buy something halfway decent if you don't have something halfway decent to learn on it can save you a headache if all you have is the extremely cheap blades like those.

Also do a search on google and type in bladeforums afterwards, something like "how to sharpen bladeforums" as I find the search engine in google works better than what we have here. You will find a lot of help that way. I know a lot of us posted a lot of good helpful advice on this topic in the past, and its difficult to keep writing the exact same thing as theres a lot to be said so this will help further your knowledge by reading past topics. This isn't meant as a mean search before you post as I enjoy answering questions but we have covered a lot of things extensively in the past and it's a wealth of knowledge, and be sure to bookmark or copy and past the more informative posts so you can revisit them latter.

 

[calc]

Yes, practice on cheap knives first. Practice, practice, practice. You will mess up quite a bit before getting it down.

As for setting the angle, a cheap method is just using a piece of paper. Each edge is 90 degrees, so with some basic trig you could cut yourself a guide. It's not going to be sturdy unless you use cardboard, but the idea is really just to get you started in the right direction. Regarding keeping the angle steady, I typically use the Sharpie trick if I'm having issues. Color the bevel, and depending on where the ink is ground off, you'll know if you're too high or too low. Ideally, the whole bevel will be ink free if you're matching the angle correctly.

 

[fsatsil]

Since you are just starting out and trying to learn I wouldn't even worry about determining edge angles it's not important. What is important is that you can hold the knife at a consistent angle for each stroke on the stone. Practice getting the knife sharp at the factory angle for now. You can use the "sharpie trick" and/or a loupe to make sure you are matching the factory bevels and grinding all the way to the apex.

 

[Alberta Ed]

There are lots of good books on sharpening. It's not rocket science. With a set of bench stones (my preference is diamond hones from coarse to extra fine), patience and practice you can sharpen any knife.

 

[HeavyHanded]

Study your hands and the tool in motion. Any wobble you can see needs to be reduced.
You can glue some sandpaper to a board and practice grinding plastic or hardwood shims into edge shapes, complete with bevel. You can also use small pieces of aluminum flat stock, a 1" x 1/8" can yield a bunch of "blades". The econo stone also a good suggestion on cheaper knives.

 

[cchu518]

Did anyone say a 1/4 inch binder clip give you about a perfect 20 dps angle.

 

[bucketstove]

frugal education dollartree $1 sharpening stone knives mini clothes pin 10dps wedge..

dollar tree has sharpening stones for $1 each
it also has all metal binder clips, and has mini clothes pins (10dps wedge)
it also has all manner of knives for $1 each
it also has 3-pack of wide chisel tip markers for finding your angle using the "sharpie trick"

the stones aren't perfectly flat , the edges are raised, but about 1min of rubbing all the corners/edges takes care of that easily and you can get to scrape shaving arm hair in no time, raise a burr, weaken it, cut it off, shave

Takes me under 5 minute to sharpen a paring knife, maybe 100pps to raise a burr and some 4-10 to cut it off

This is method I use more or less how to sharpen a knife - Joe Calton and maybe read more info here

it also has non-slip/non-skid shelf liners , plastic tupperware box... even sandpapers, ha

 

[Bob6794]

From my experience cheap markers don't work good for doing the sharpie trick as their not always easy to see. In fact I prefer red sharpies for this reason as out of a few colors I tried red seems to be the easiest to see. Dollar store knives generally aren't too good for learning as they tend to be more temperamental on what your using to sharpen them with and not always willing to take an edge where as a slightly better knife will. So they may lead to more frustration than necessary as you may be thinking your not making any progress but it's actually the shoddy steel and heat treat holding you back. Though they work good for other purposes in trying to learn how to grind a new tip on something, blade repairs, and a number of other things they are quite good for.

I personally bought several cheap dollar store knives to get used to using my Sharpmaker and the motion of using it compared to a normal bench stone so I could have a few more decently sharp kitchen knives, they don't get as sharp as my others knives do as they seem incapable of doing so but for normal kitchen duty it's good enough. I also ended up having to make several repairs to the blade in how badly they were made right out of the box with bad tips and other things going on. So they were good in building those skills up. But they definitely were temperamental on taking an edge and didn't want to respond to anything but my ceramic stones for the most part.

I'm not saying to go expensive in these things, but a normal sharpie lying around the house or $2 at a store and $3-4 for a victorinox paring knife or some other decent knife to work on if you want a dedicated one to beat up isn't a bad investment and may save your some headaches.

 

[JR88FAN]

A sharpie. (Mark the edge, and make sure you are hitting it)

A lot of practice and patience. (YouTube is a great place to get an idea of some different techniques, and that is a good start for developing your own)

A cheap knife to practice on.....

 

[Brisket]

If there is a butcher shop or meat processing business in your area ask them about buying some of their retired knives and use them to practice with. I bought a box load of Forschner boning knives cheap and used them for practice on belt sander sharpening and it was one of the best investments in my sharpening training that I've ever made. That and the Sharpie Pen already mentioned.

Another thing you might find beneficial is to video yourself sharpening. When you view it later you will likely pick up some errors that you may not have been aware of at the time you made them. I got the idea to do this after watching Murray Carters sharpening videos and was left wondering how smooth, steady and efficient my sharpening motion was in comparison, which BTW was not even close the first time I did it. My motion has now improved to the point where it might resemble Murray Carter sharpening while in his helicopter.

 

[Fred.Rowe]

Get yourself a set of degree wedges in a broad range of angles and use these to position the blade. You can pick up grinding on a stone in half an hour using wedges.
Anyone who has a miter saw can cut you a set in a few minutes, just tell him the angles you want.
No need to ruin all those butter knives practicing.

Fred

 

[bucketstove]

From my experience cheap markers don't work good for doing the sharpie trick as their not always easy to see. In fact I prefer red sharpies for this reason as out of a few colors I tried red seems to be the easiest to see. Dollar store knives generally aren't too good for learning as they tend to be more temperamental on what your using to sharpen them with and not always willing to take an edge where as a slightly better knife will. So they may lead to more frustration than necessary as you may be thinking your not making any progress but it's actually the shoddy steel and heat treat holding you back. Though they work good for other purposes in trying to learn how to grind a new tip on something, blade repairs, and a number of other things they are quite good for.

I personally bought several cheap dollar store knives to get used to using my Sharpmaker and the motion of using it compared to a normal bench stone so I could have a few more decently sharp kitchen knives, they don't get as sharp as my others knives do as they seem incapable of doing so but for normal kitchen duty it's good enough. I also ended up having to make several repairs to the blade in how badly they were made right out of the box with bad tips and other things going on. So they were good in building those skills up. But they definitely were temperamental on taking an edge and didn't want to respond to anything but my ceramic stones for the most part.

I'm not saying to go expensive in these things, but a normal sharpie lying around the house or $2 at a store and $3-4 for a victorinox paring knife or some other decent knife to work on if you want a dedicated one to beat up isn't a bad investment and may save your some headaches.

Hi,

I don't doubt your experience, but I also don't doubt mine you worry too much about the quality of the cheap (its great quality)
I sharpened a lot of dollar store knives, even the ones I bought at the grocery store for 7 times as much (they're all the same)
They'll all take an arm hair shaving sharp edge rather easily
these from dollar tree I tried

all the sharpie markers I had were dried out or fine point , so I bought some new ones, red and green work really well (good markers)

 

[bucketstove]

You can buy a basic norton economy stone (black/grey is their silicon carbide and is 6in, their tan/brown 8in is india) or pick up a craftsman stone which is black/grey and a thing of black compound which has a yellow cap and marked as #1 I want to say and goes for $2 there as well.

Hi, what is $2 dollars and where did you buy it?

 

[Bob6794]

Sounds like you have some better dollar stores than I do for what they carry, I'm envious. From the ones I've experimented on it wasn't as good of an experience as yours.

I was talking about the craftsman black compound that has the yellow cap from what I recall labled #1 on their rating system, if you can get them separately they go for around $2 and this is at Sears. Though it's hit and miss if you can find it, I think their moving towards just selling things in a full pack of compounds which consist of quite a few more. That was the only decent one I tried, their #2 compound I found a bit lacking in comparison which is less abrasive and quite a bit more difficult to apply due to how hard the compound is.

The stones I was talking about will probably set you back $6-10 generally unless you go with the nicer Norton India or Crystolon (not the economy version).

 

[bucketstove]

Sounds like you have some better dollar stores than I do for what they carry, I'm envious. From the ones I've experimented on it wasn't as good of an experience as yours.

I was talking about the craftsman black compound that has the yellow cap from what I recall labled #1 on their rating system, if you can get them separately they go for around $2 and this is at Sears. Though it's hit and miss if you can find it, I think their moving towards just selling things in a full pack of compounds which consist of quite a few more. That was the only decent one I tried, their #2 compound I found a bit lacking in comparison which is less abrasive and quite a bit more difficult to apply due to how hard the compound is.

The stones I was talking about will probably set you back $6-10 generally unless you go with the nicer Norton India or Crystolon (not the economy version).

Thanks for the info.
Regarding the dollar stores, maybe its a difference in technique?
What is your technique/method of sharpening?

This is method I use more or less how to sharpen a knife - Joe Calton and maybe read more info here

Basically I raise a burr, weaken it, cut it off with a high angle (at least double... or 45 degrees then microbevel at double angle)

So if you were using sharpmaker 15dps you'd use 30dps to cut off burr
So if you were using sharpmaker 20dps you'd use 40dps to cut off burr

The burrs I get on these knives can be tricky to cut off, 5 degree increase in angle won't cut them off

 

[glocke12]

OP, I was in a similar boat...

Picked up some nice, expensive knives over the past year and was afraid to sharpen them. I watched tons of internet videos, but many (even the KSF ones) I found lacking.

In the end I just used some old knives I had lying around and bought a couple of cheap ones to practice with, and also picked up a ken onion sharpener, as well as a strop, grits and sandpaper.. A year later I've finally gotten comfortable enough to use the KO sharpener as well as the strop on one of my more expensive knives (BR Bravo 1).

I am still not sure if I am doing it right, but the knife is sharp enough to cut newspaper, and I've gotten to the point where sharpening by hand I can pop (but not quite shave) some hairs with this knife.

Bottom line is it's practice, practice practice, as well as acceptance of the fact that you might screw the blade up in the end. I just tell myself that you can't screw these things up to much, at least not to the point that an expert will be unable to bring it back

 

[Bob6794]

Thanks for the info.
Regarding the dollar stores, maybe its a difference in technique?
What is your technique/method of sharpening?

This is method I use more or less how to sharpen a knife - Joe Calton and maybe read more info here

Basically I raise a burr, weaken it, cut it off with a high angle (at least double... or 45 degrees then microbevel at double angle)

So if you were using sharpmaker 15dps you'd use 30dps to cut off burr
So if you were using sharpmaker 20dps you'd use 40dps to cut off burr

The burrs I get on these knives can be tricky to cut off, 5 degree increase in angle won't cut them off

Technique isn't perfect but I can still get a knife barely treetopping hair coming right off the norton economy stone so I don't think it's the reason in this case and freehand sharpening is one of my lesser skills as I am better with the sharpmaker or DMT Aligner. Some of the cheaper steels with poor heat treats just don't behave nicely with sharpening from my experience. I've seen a few of them actually chip quite severely from trying to be sharpened on diamonds, silicon carbide, and I can't remember if I had one chip on my india stone. Was quite weird seeing it happen too as there was no excessive pressure used, just the weight of the blade and this is with trying things freehand, dmt aligner, and benchstones with dmt alinger clamp just to experiment. Strangely enough for some reason I haven't had a blade chip on the sharpmakers ceramics. And no matter what I do I find I can't get junk steel to take as good of an edge as decent steel.

EDITED IN:
Oh and burr's aren't my problem with these knives. It's them actually being able to take an edge as they just seem to have a limit in how sharp they will get and chipping has been a very real problem for me. I can usually get these knives to push cut receipt paper but no where near as effortlessly as practically every other knife I own, and I takes a lot of work and patience to make one to occasionally catch a few hairs when you try to treetop hair. For the amount of work I put into the blade to get it that sharp it's far easier to get a slightly more expensive knife of better quality sharper as would be far less finicky.