Hand Sharpening. With training wheels.

[r8shell]

I own or have owned various sharpening systems from a Lansky clamp system to a Work Sharp belt sander. They all work well. But I keep coming back to wanting to learn to do a decent job of hand sharpening with a stone. Partly a point of pride, and partly it just seems like it would be easier in the long run not to have to set up the equipment when I want to touch up an edge. Also reading Jackknife's posts about coffee cup sharpening appeals to me in its simplicity.

So I'm sitting here thinking about what has kept me from doing a better job on the stones and I guess it comes down to the old problem of keeping a consistent angle. I had a 'brilliant' idea. I cut a section of a drinking straw, and made a cut along it vertically. I then fitted it over the spine of an Opinel, and sharpened it on a stone, keeping my finger holding the piece of straw on the knife and just touching the stone. I don't know what angle this made exactly, but it felt about right. I'll practice with it some more, but I think just maybe this will instill some muscle memory for holding an angle.

What do y'all think?

 

[Nullity]

I sharpen freehand and I actually prefer a slightly convex edge or slight rounding of the primary to secondary bevel transition.
I don't keep a consistent angle when freehanding and my edges still turn out fine. My 325 grit DMT edge shaves hair and I have very basic freehanding skills.

Don't worry about having a consistent angle. Proper sharpening technique (grit choice, burr removal, knowing when to use edge trailing/leading strokes, how to use a leather strop, etc) is much more important than holding a consistent angle.

 

[Teton]

I just invested in stones, a couple were waiting for me when I got home, expecting some tomorrow and a couple more to arrive next week. I'm in with both feet now, come hell or high water I will learn to use waterstones. Found out yesterday one of the best sharpeners around is a half hour away. Going to take a couple classes from him in the next month or so.

 

[r8shell]

I sharpen freehand and I actually prefer a slightly convex edge or slight rounding of the primary to secondary bevel transition.
I don't keep a consistent angle when freehanding and my edges still turn out fine. My 325 grit DMT edge shaves hair and I have very basic freehanding skills.

Don't worry about having a consistent angle. Proper sharpening technique (grit choice, burr removal, knowing when to use edge trailing/leading strokes, how to use a leather strop, etc) is much more important than holding a consistent angle.

Thanks for the response. Food for thought.
I've read a little on this site about convexing edges with sandpaper, but whenever I've tried it I just seem to make the blade duller.
Oh well, I have this carbon knife to practice with, and my real problem could just be lack of patience.

 

[Nullity]

Thanks for the response. Food for thought.
I've read a little on this site about convexing edges with sandpaper, but whenever I've tried it I just seem to make the blade duller.
Oh well, I have this carbon knife to practice with, and my real problem could just be lack of patience.

I don't use sandpaper to convex.
I use a 325grit DMT benchstone and simply rely on my inability to keep a steady angle to naturally convrx the edge. Hehe, I use my lack of skill as a tool.

Like you, I wanted to switch to freehand because it seemed like a more worthwhile skill than using a clamped setup, and I was also tired of the finicky setup and usage of the Lansky. Now I just grab my stone and leather strop and within a five minutes my knife is sharp again.

 

[stitchawl]

I sharpen freehand and I actually prefer a slightly convex edge or slight rounding of the primary to secondary bevel transition............SNIP for brevity.......................
Don't worry about having a consistent angle. Proper sharpening technique (grit choice, burr removal, knowing when to use edge trailing/leading strokes, how to use a leather strop, etc) is much more important than holding a consistent angle.

Gosh, I almost hate to do it, and will all due respect to the poster, but I really have to disagree with this... unless of course you always want a convex edge. If you want a beveled edge, there is nothing quite as important as holding the consistent angle. That's why ALL of the better sharpening devices are designed to hold a consistent angle. ALL OF THEM. Even for a convexed edge, maintaining a fairly consistent angle is rudimentary. While using the proper choice of grits IS important (you don't want to use a 120 after you've used a 400) and knowing the correct way to strop IS important if you want a more finished, polished edge for push cutting, if you don't maintain a consistent angle when working the blade on the stone you will NOT get the optimum results. Yes, you will get some sort of edge... But not what could be gotten from doing it correctly.


Stitchawl

 

[Nullity]

Gosh, I almost hate to do it, and will all due respect to the poster, but I really have to disagree with this... unless of course you always want a convex edge. If you want a beveled edge, there is nothing quite as important as holding the consistent angle. That's why ALL of the better sharpening devices are designed to hold a consistent angle. ALL OF THEM. Even for a convexed edge, maintaining a fairly consistent angle is rudimentary. While using the proper choice of grits IS important (you don't want to use a 120 after you've used a 400) and knowing the correct way to strop IS important if you want a more finished, polished edge for push cutting, if you don't maintain a consistent angle when working the blade on the stone you will NOT get the optimum results. Yes, you will get some sort of edge... But not what could be gotten from doing it correctly.


Stitchawl

It's all about the apex. If the apex itself is sharp, everything behind it has zero effect on how sharp the apex is.
I'm sure you've read the threads started by new owners of a Wicked Edge, Edge Pro, etc, where they complain about not being able to achieve a paper slicing edge. The reason is because they don't know proper sharpening technique so having perfectly angled bevels makes no difference. Every freehand edge will be slightly convex because of our imperfect human hands, but sharp edges are still achievable. Angle consistency is important (~10± degrees?), but perfectly flat edge bevels are not, that's why freehanding works just fine.

I could be wrong, of course.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

I believe in order to have a clean apex, ability to hold consistent angle is important. Otherwise, the hand will not be able to execute what knowledge or theory meant to be.

Example: burr removal. Without consistent angle, either one misses it (too low) or creating microbevel (too high). This, combined with too much pressure (instead of removing, it creates a new oneont the other side) or too light (abrasive cannot work to remove burr) will not yield a clean apex.

I'd say both the knowledge and ability to perform are needed to succeed.

In any case the result is what counts. If anyone is happy with the edge he/she produces, that's good. Not everyone needs to chase that hair splitting edge (that'll be me )

I only improve after much practice and watching the videos. And it's about the way I move to keep it constant.

 

[jackknife]

Y'all are over thinking it too much. free hand sharpening a knife is not thinking about it, and letting your mind do it's job. It's like instinctive shooting with a longbow or recurve. Or like wadding up a piece of paper and tossing it in the trashcan. You don't figure that the paper weighs x number of grams, the distance to the waste basket is x number of feet, and the velocity will be Y. No, you just wad up the paper and toss it. The mind, the most wonderful computer, will automatically adjust and the paper goes in the can. Sharpening a knife is very similar.

You learn the basics, but don't think about it much. Just lay the blade on the stone at half of the half distance from 90 degrees and go. The small circles method keeps the blade on the stone at that same angle which is close enough. It's not going to matter if the angle is 23 degrees or 25 degrees, as long as the apex of the edge is sharp. Use a dry erase marker to keep track of what your doing as you learn, and it will be fine. Your eye and hand will develop the skill to do this very quickly if you just take it easy and don't over complicate it with unneeded gizmos and gadgets. If the soda straw works for you, go to it, but after a while you'll be able to recognize the feel of the angle and the sound of the blade on the stone. It's not hard. And you're not wrong, Nullity.

Carl.

 

[bpeezer]

Y'all are over thinking it too much.

For some of us, that's the most fun way to do it

 

[HeavyHanded]

It's all about the apex. If the apex itself is sharp, everything behind it has zero effect on how sharp the apex is.
I'm sure you've read the threads started by new owners of a Wicked Edge, Edge Pro, etc, where they complain about not being able to achieve a paper slicing edge. The reason is because they don't know proper sharpening technique so having perfectly angled bevels makes no difference. Every freehand edge will be slightly convex because of our imperfect human hands, but sharp edges are still achievable. Angle consistency is important (~10± degrees?), but perfectly flat edge bevels are not, that's why freehanding works just fine.

I could be wrong, of course.

My guess is that you are holding much tighter angles than you realize it, at least where it counts. So even with a hand-convexed edge, I have no doubt you must be stopping at a very consistent point as you elevate the spine, leaving a nice clean apex. Too much variation along the apex and the edge just won't be very nice.

A huge part of my personal improvement in sharpening has come as a result of recognizing and eliminating slop in my technique, improving my angle holding consistency and pressure regulation. One can still get respectable edges with a bit of slop, but will be very difficult to go beyond a basic level.

To the OP, I wouldn't worry about it much to begin, just use a coarse stone and practice getting your bevels optically flat and learn to manage the burr. Then try to do the same with every step up in refinement. At some stage you'll begin to really challenge your physical ability to hold the angle within the margin of error afforded by a given stone. IMHO, the margin of error in producing an optically flat looking bevel is relative to the size of the abrasive - coarser stones have a larger margin of error, finer ones result in progressively smaller margin of error.

 

[Phydeaux]

One of the things that helped me a lot was watching a friend sharpen knives. Being able to watch body and arm movement was one of the things that helped me. So if you can find someone to watch and help you may be beneficial. I'm sure if there is a forum member near by, they would be willing to help you. If you fill out your location in your profile, maybe a member near by would help you out.

Ric

 

[Nullity]

My guess is that you are holding much tighter angles than you realize it, at least where it counts. So even with a hand-convexed edge, I have no doubt you must be stopping at a very consistent point as you elevate the spine, leaving a nice clean apex. Too much variation along the apex and the edge just won't be very nice.

A huge part of my personal improvement in sharpening has come as a result of recognizing and eliminating slop in my technique, improving my angle holding consistency and pressure regulation. One can still get respectable edges with a bit of slop, but will be very difficult to go beyond a basic level.

To the OP, I wouldn't worry about it much to begin, just use a coarse stone and practice getting your bevels optically flat and learn to manage the burr. Then try to do the same with every step up in refinement. At some stage you'll begin to really challenge your physical ability to hold the angle within the margin of error afforded by a given stone. IMHO, the margin of error in producing an optically flat looking bevel is relative to the size of the abrasive - coarser stones have a larger margin of error, finer ones result in progressively smaller margin of error.

Perhaps I am a naturally gifted freehander, dunno. The rounded, asymmetrical edges don't scream professional though. I'm basing my opinion on my experiences with a Lansky and my improvements in technique gained by reading sharpening books and the forums. When I originally got my Lansky, my edges were still worthless. Only when I learned proper technique did I achieve hair popping sharpness. I applied these techniques to my inexperienced freehanding and got a sharp edge.

So, in my experience, perfect angles did not matter, technique did. This proves nothing, just sharing my observations.


Like Phydeaux said, watching someone sharpen can be helpful. I personally like Murray Carter's YouTube videos. His method is quick and simple.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

Jackknife, I find your videos and technique refreshing in its simplicity, ease of use and overall effectiveness.

However, they cater to a certain type of person, with a specific goal, that being a relatively sharp knife with minimal fuss and investment.

You can't totally discount the methods used by professional and hobbyist level sharpeners though. We invest a bunch of money and time in the act of sharpening, not necessarily out of frustration or inability, but because it's fun, it's relaxing, it can be very rewarding (or frustrating) and for some profitable.

I'm not sure where Rachel stands (sounds like your methods are excellent for her), but as someone else pointed out, overthinking it is just how some of us do it.

Now that I've said all of that, I do find myself reaching for my stones more often lately. And if I'm honest, I've turned over a mug or two. Just to look mind you.

Rachel, I came across a ratio somewhere (I'm sure it was carving related ) where they specified a width of blade to spine height (off a stones surface) ratio. Can't recall exactly what it was, but for the short knife I was using, that height was about a quarters thickness at the spine off the stone. My guess is that half the width of a straw would be great for your Opi.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

By the way, straw idea is great! I wish I had thought about it in my earlier days of learning to hold consistent angle.

I guess holding a consistent angle is what every one try to achieve, however, in free handing it's only possible to be close enough, is what jackknife and Nullity trying to convey. I can definetely relate to that

Nullity, when you say technique, what it means? When it's about sharpening, my understanding of good technique = able to hold consistent angle & pressure throughout, so this is baffling to me

Carl,
I also use the coffee mug when doing it for my in-laws kitchen knives. Use better stone/strop for my wife's knives (she has higher standard nowadays ) and further refinement for my personal shaving knives. It's a matter of desired result and how to get there. Some of us (me included) are not very physically gifted, so we need the 'overthinking' part to guide the practice. Some might be more physically talented, that able to keep the constant angle just by feel. Many routes to the same destination I guess.

 

[Nullity]

By the way, straw idea is great! I wish I had thought about it in my earlier days of learning to hold consistent angle.

I guess holding a consistent angle is what every one try to achieve, however, in free handing it's only possible to be close enough, is what jackknife and Nullity trying to convey. I can definetely relate to that

Nullity, when you say technique, what it means? When it's about sharpening, my understanding of good technique = able to hold consistent angle & pressure throughout, so this is baffling to me

Carl,
I also use the coffee mug when doing it for my in-laws kitchen knives. Use better stone/strop for my wife's knives (she has higher standard nowadays ) and further refinement for my personal shaving knives. It's a matter of desired result and how to get there. Some of us (me included) are not very physically gifted, so we need the 'overthinking' part to guide the practice. Some might be more physically talented, that able to keep the constant angle just by feel. Many routes to the same destination I guess.

When I say "technique" I mean knowing when you've reached the apex, when to use edge-trailing or edge-leading strokes, when to use light or heavy pressure, how to remove the burr, how to strop effectively, etc. Most of these things need very little skill, only some knowledge.

I consider angle consistency a skill that can only be learned by experience, not in a book.

I'm not sure what I mean anymore... :yawn:

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Thanks! Got the point and it's indeed important. Mag has clarified a lot of it on his sticky thread for beginner (and I'm still going back to clear my head time and again )