Handle Attempt #1....grrrrrrrrr.....

M

Michael_Schaap

Joined
Aug 23, 2000
Messages
107
So I got the kit all ready...did not think I would fall in love with the diamondwood handle material they sent me so I got some wood that I liked. It was thicker then they gave me so I had to sand it down on the sander to the right thickness. So I first cut the handle to size then sanded it down. When I finished though I noticed that it was not flat......I pushed it with a piece of wood on the sander but it came out thicker on one side then the other....Well.....I talked to the shop guy and he told me that it takes practice...espeically when you sand a lot off. So back to the sander I went to attempt to sand off the handle so that it would be flat. I figured that I realy only need one side flat....the other one is going to get sanded anyways.... so when I got it flat I went to the drill press and drill the holes....well on one side it looks centered and the other it looks...well.... not all that centered....grrrrrrr....

Hmph.....I'm not discurraged......really I'm not.......grrrrrr.....

Hmmm..... I think I am going to go back to the diamondwood material and use that for the first one. It's at the right thickness. There are also some curves on the tang that I was attempting to put on the handle....this did not work out as I had wanted either..... starting to think that I should just have a KISS attitude for the first one.... Hmmm.... anyone have any words of wisdom here......?

Michael
 
Well, no help on the curved tang because I'm not sure what you're trying to do. But, on the diamondwood, be careful drilling out those scales. It's very brittle and if my guess is right, quite thin.

When you drill your rivet holes, drill through until your bit just pokes it's nose through the other side, then turn the piece over and finish drilling from that side. That will keep from getting a 'pucker poke', which just really makes a mess of your finished handle. If you have experience drilling hardwoods, you'll know what I mean by 'pucker poke'.

What type of fasteners will you use for the scales? Screw-type or peen type rivets?
 
Hmmm...they gave me some brass colored metal that looks like dowel rods (no rivets) that I am assuming is pin material. The curved part I was talking about is the part where the index finger rests (the knife is a skinner).

Michael
 
Michael, in drilling your holes, drill one side only using the knife holes as your template. Then use the side you just drilled as the template for the other. Use those brass pins in each instance to hold the piece you're drilling in place, while you drill the next hole (ie, drill a hole, drop a pin in it, go on to the next hole, drill, drop in a pin, etc. etc...).

When all your holes are drilled in both sides, push the pins through the slabs to hold them together. Then finish off the front surface that will be impossible to even up after the handle is on the knife. You can also use a saw at this point to remove some of the excess material.

Once you have everything even and trimmed as much as you dare, smear epoxy on the two slabs and run the pins through everything - slab, knife blade, slab. You can clean up any epoxy that oozes out with some rubbing alcohol. If you have some clamps, use them.

Let it cure, then start your final shaping and smoothing. Diamondwood is likely not the easiest material to start with. Almost any natural wood wouild have been easier to work.

The only thing you need to worry about here is that the inside of each slab is as smooth and even as you can make it. I use sandpaper on a flat surface to do that.

Good luck,

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
The Tom & Jerry Show
 
Yeah. I have natural wood which I actually like. It is just thicker then the wood that they sent. He attempted to teach me how to use a .....hmmm...what did he call this.... cant remember the name.... it is a machine that will take off some of the material. You put it in the machine and it looks like a drill, only your work is sitting on a bed. Then the drill bit moves back and forth shaving off material while keeping everyting level. This was the problem when I sanded on the sander. The sides got off level. He told me that this problem will be solved if I use this machine. Was thinking of using this small band saw I found there in the shop first then using this machine he showed me.

How do you all take a piece of wood that is a different thickness and bring it down to the size you want....?

Michael
 
A few thoughts, from my meager experience...(and brother, I mean MEAGER!)

My first piece was a prefab blade that I slapped dymondwood scales on, too, so that's not a bad place to start. I think it was Bob Engnath's page where I first saw it suggested to epoxy on one side, drill it, and then epoxy and drill the other side to ensure that everything lines up. Even if it ain't square, it'll line up. I know, it sounds basic and logical, but I've reinvented a whole lot of very OBVIOUS wheels in the last year or so.

Now, for the biggest bonus to this method. If you have a coping saw, you can remove a lot of excess material from each scale as you glue it on, using the knife's tang itself for a guide. Trust me on this one, a coping saw won't cut steel (I SAID my experience was meager--if you have some funky steel-cutting blade, you're better off than me...). I usually try to leave about 1/16" around the straights, with more in tight spots. Then, spend $5 and get a drum sanding mandrel for your drill (I'm assuming you have a drill...if you don't then you're in for a LOT of sanding and filing), and use it to take your slabs down the rest of the way. Again, you'll use your tang as a guide; while sanding, when you see sparks, you know you've hit metal--STOP!

I hope this helps out. I'm still learning, and I've got a long way to go, but like most folks 'round here, I'll try to help where I can. Good luck, and send pics!


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Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup...
 
I'll second the suggestion for glueing one side of the handle on first, drill holes for the pins using the tang as a guide, then glue and drill the other side. Leave flats on the handle stock until drilled or you'll have a "learning experience" as I've had removing the epoxy and starting again, and again, and so on!
Luck, Lynn
 
Thanks all for your suggestions!!!
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I feel a bit more confident now in trying this again. I do like the wood I picked for the project and I think I'll machine the wood to the thickness that I need.

Michael
 
You really don't need to worry about the thickness until the slabs are on the blade. You can then use a grinder or a rasp to rough shape the handle the way you want it. Depending on the wood, rough sandpaper will cut through it pretty quickly.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
The Tom & Jerry Show
 
Ok....so how is this....ummm..... I take these slabs that are thicker then the pins I have...drill the holes and epoxy the whole thing together...pins and all....pushing the pins in the wood till they are even on both sides..... then start sanding away...would this work? Kinda wondering how to get the front end that is close to the blade all prepped and sanded.... hmmm.... I keep on reading away...it looks that this finishing of the front is important.

Michael
 
What I usually do is tape my scales together, matching them up as close as possible, and then finish the blade end of them. That ensures that they are done and identical, essentially. Then go ahead and affix them, and just have a little care while you're working the remaining surfaces. If you're lucky, you won't have to work on the fronts, anymore. And if you're not, well, then, at least you shouldn't have to do very much to clean them up. You might also want to make up a small chisel out of brass stock, to get any sloppy epoxy off the blade up front. It should peel off easily, without marring the blade. Careful, though! Even brass will cut most woods, if you slip and go too far.



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Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup...
 
Michael, If you shape and finish the front, using the pins in the slab holes (drilled as mentioned above) to align them, the front is very easy to get even. After it is even, then epoxy the slabs to the knife. This way works everytime.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
The Tom & Jerry Show
 
Hmmm. I know what you are going thru! tape the scales together, outside out and finish the front part so it is even. Then, clamp the tang to the handles and use the tang as a template to drill holes. then epoxy it to the handle, with the handle slabs uncut. And put the pins in. Make sure to sand one side of the handle stuff, the inside of it, flat and dont worry bout the outside. then, grab a small saw, coping or hacksaw and lop off the extra handle stuff, then file it flush with the tang with files or rasps. Lop the extra pin material off with the hacksaw. then use sandpaper, rasps, files, etc to shape the handle. To get the curvy thingy, aka finger grooves, get a few half round files and use those, or a Dremel. Then, when you have it shaped out, get soem cheap shop rolls..dont spend $30 per roll...get Harbor freights stuff...3 or 4 $$ a roll and it works good. Clamp blade to table and shoeshine the handle with the shop roll. Gets in curves nice and rounds the handle nicely. Round and shape to taste and you can even stuff out while shaping it. Have fun! i just got back from classes, so i hope this made sense!
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You guys are great to help Michael sort this stuff out. "Salute" to all who participate in this forum and help others. If I ever get up the courage to start making my own knives, I know this is the place to be!

Cheers.

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Jay
 
Yes they have been wonderful! Jay.... why the need for courage? Honestly.... this kit came with all the parts... I only went to the hardware store and got some files and a vise.....just go for it
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Try TX knifemaking supply.... knife and gun supply...... there are a lot of kits out there. Not as hard as you might guess, but is challenging as you see
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Trust me
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Just go for it! You wont regret it!

Michael
 
Shop roll is a 1" or 1.5" wide roll of sandpaper with cloth backing, doesnt tear or shred like other sandpaper. Thin stuff, gets curves well and is usually 50 yds or so long.
 
I have been having handle troubles too! Don't worry though, as this is probably one of many knives you'll make and you'll get better each time. I just busted the third set of handle slabs two days ago on a knife that I have been trying to finish for a while!!! I even went out and bought a drill press so that I'd drill straight holes. Well, here's the latest tip I learned. Do not insert your lanyard liner (brass tube) into the lanyard hole if you have one. You'll be able to get it in but getting it out can, as was my case, split the handle material. In the future I'll be dropping a 1/4" pin into that handle so it will be easier to get out. Ditto on the mosaic pins ::

Yes, I really do have a Magic Knot Knife project, it is just taking a lot longet than I thought to finish!!!! For those of you who want to see the results, please be patient! My fourth attempt will be a different configuration! Perhaps the colors I was using earlier were the problem.... I'll be pulling out either white or natural micarta for this shot at it!



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"Come What May..."
 
My morning.....

Came in the shop around....9am.... cut the wood for my second attempt and kept it thick as we talked about....drilled holes using the tang as a template then drilled the other slab using what I just drilled as a template. Well I forgot to put the pin in and just drill the second hole.... it was off by just a tad.....like....1/32.... just enough to cause problems....after attempting to fix the problem I discovered that it was more trouble then it was wortth and cut another slab. Back to the drill only this time I pined it and drilled the second hole.
Ok....so I have two slabs with identicle holes. Perfect. Went back the the table and dry fit everything.....errrr..... something is not right here......the holes are perfect but the pins are not going in very well.....thought it might be the tang and sure enough the tang was off on the second hole by again....1/32...really small... So then I took a vise grip and griped all three layers with the pin in the first hole. Drilled through all three layers for a clean fit. Left the shop at 12:05!

Well everything fits perfectly now. I need to sand the pins a little bit to give some room for the epoxy and sand down the front or the handles.

Michael
 
My morning.....

Came in the shop around....9am.... cut the wood for my second attempt and kept it thick as we talked about....drilled holes using the tang as a template then drilled the other slab using what I just drilled as a template. Well I forgot to put the pin in and just drill the second hole.... it was off by just a tad.....like....1/32.... just enough to cause problems....after attempting to fix the problem I discovered that it was more trouble then it was wortth and cut another slab. Back to the drill only this time I pined it and drilled the second hole.
Ok....so I have two slabs with identicle holes. Perfect. Went back the the table and dry fit everything.....errrr..... something is not right here......the holes are perfect but the pins are not going in very well.....thought it might be the tang and sure enough the tang was off on the second hole by again....1/32...really small... So then I took a vise grip and griped all three layers with the pin in the first hole. Drilled through all three layers for a clean fit. Left the shop at 12:05!

Well everything fits perfectly now. I need to sand the pins a little bit to give some room for the epoxy and sand down the front or the handles.

Michael
 
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