Handle pins: drilling before or after?

Kentucky

Kentucky

Joined
Dec 13, 2008
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Just curious, on full tang knives do you like to drill pins holes before glue up or after?
 
When I had made relatively few knives, I'd often drill through entirely after glue-up. Occasionally now I'll drill the handle material before glue-up, then drill the tang afterward through the handle hole. Mostly now I like to fit everything up "dry" to a good clean fit with fasteners before any glue, that way I don't get glue gaps or any other surprises. I've had what I thought were well clamped handles ease back from the back of guards before while gluing up. Also, I don't like drilling through wood/metal in one pass, or even metal/metal. Bits sometimes snap, or holes in softer material get wallowed a bit when the bit breaks through them and starts walking slightly when starting to cut non-punch marked harder material underneath. Undue heat may be generated, and oiling the bit for drilling the steel tang may be proscribed by the handle material.

I like the control of knowing I got clean fastener holes through everything before assembly. What if I work hardened the hole in the tang while drilling through with a handle already glued on? I don't like having the added weight and damageable bulk of a finished blade and fittings on an item that's giving me any trouble at all. That, and I like to clamp and drill the handle block often when it's still got square sides to make drilling a straight hole that much easier. And, I've drilled through finished handles before only to chip out the other side. Even a little chip out can be a hassle on a finished handle. It's not a problem at all with a rough block.

I like to get the mating surfaces to where they look good dry, drill/broach the handle block, insert the tang, maybe super glue tack and/or clamp into position, and use a sharp bit with the drilled block as a guide to mark the pin hole location(s) in the tang, then take it apart and drill the tang separately. (This also allows me to c-sink my pin hole in the tang.)

I can draw the tang onto the side of the block if left rough, that makes it easy to hit the center of the tang when drilling the block. Also, many of my blades have a soft-spring tempered tang (torch drawn from hard) and I much prefer to drill through partially hard steel in the open air.

Just my thoughts, and some of my reasoning behind them. Hope I don't come off as pedantic or patronizing.
 
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I didn't know anyone drilled the entire piece after glue up...I thought everyone drilled the holes in the tang beforehand, usually before heat treat.
 
Drilling after glueing up is an invitation for problems. Make a mistake or have something unexpected occur during drilling and you may have to take everything apart, probably losing your scale material in the process, if it is wood. Even if your tangs aren't hardened, sooner or later you are likely to find one that has a hard spot or a large carbide inclusion, etc. that will stop your drill dead in its tracks. With a bare blade this is usually easy enough to deal with, but with scales permanently mounted your options are much fewer.

If your blades are through-hardened, and especially if you are working with high alloy/stainless steels, you will need carbide bits to drill the tang after it is hardened. Easier and more logical to just do it before HT, much less at the point of glueing the scales on.
 
I drill before glue up but after heat treat . mostly for the same reasons Salem talked about . If the hole is to big around the pin it will not look that great.
 
Step 1, square drill press table to drill bit both x and y axis (mine was way off and caused all kinds of problems) @ a true 90° is very helpful.


I drill tang holes pre heat treat and "tack" glue one side with just a couple drops of super glue drill, add other scale, carefully drill through the previously installed scale using it for a guide for the guide. Remove both scales pin together finish front then install, using a slow cure epoxy allows me to install and peen pins @ the same time (peen after clamped with elevated anvil)

This is just how I do it may be completely wrong but works for me.

oh and wear nitrile glove not latex, the glue eats up the latex ... don't ask how I know that.
 
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I drill before grinding bevels while everything is still as flat as possible. This also lets you drill some extras for lightening.
Then countersink the holes, ream 'em again for size if necessary.
THEN grind.
THEN stand.
heat-treat.
Then fit handle slabs.
I clamp the tang on top of the slab and drill through the holes into the handle material. Insert a fitting pin (I keep dedicated fitting pins in 1/8 and 3/16), then drill the next, insert pin, remove clamp, drill remaining holes.
Repeat for the other slab.
Trim the slabs to rough oversize shape, FINISH the fronts.
Then sand & cut pins, then glue.
After the epoxy is hard, I flatten the protruding pins on the disc grinder and then drill the glue out of the lanyard hole while the scales are still flat.

Drilling through the tang into the scales also does a pretty good job of cleaning the heat-treating scale out of the tang holes.

I'm quite satisfied with the reliability of this sequence. There may be efficiencies to be gained, but the results are very deterministic (as long as you don't make two left-side scales - D'OH!). Don't know about long-term reliability issues - I've only been at this a year.

-Daizee
 
Before. Usually pre-heat treat. Because of how I'm heat treating most of the tang is not hardened, but I still drill ahead of time. After heat treat I use the steel as a template.
 
I drill the holes in the tang, HT, dry fits the scales including putting the pins in, epoxy everything together leaving the pins a little long, after epoxy cures I shape an finish the scales.
 
I always drill pre-HT but Ive seen poeple drill after glue up..I guess most of you guys do it the same way we do..
 
I hate it when I don't read the post correctly . I was thinking a hidden tang knife. I drill all my hole before heat treat on full tang knives. then drill hole in handle, glue up with pins in and finish.
 
That's funny, somehow I thought "hidden tang" too. I don't think I've ever hear of anyone drilling through a full tang handle after gluing as a method. I have heard about it and even done it with hidden tangs.
 
Really, a hillbilly that lives so far back in the mountains that they have to pipe sunshine in has heard of it and not you guys?:D:D:D Basically they would soften the tang with a torch and then glue everything up.Then drill..Said it was easier for them to lay it outt hat way..
I thought it would be kinda hard to match the front of the scales/bolster area up without pins myself..
 
You have hit on the main reason ( of many) that it is a bad idea.

There is no way to get a perfectly symmetrical alignment and shape of the handle front if the scales are glued on ,then drilled and shaped. You might get close with careful positioning, but slippage during clamping, as well as it just not being possible to see the alignment in all planes, will make the two sides uneven.

Drill the scales and tang ( or just the scales) and shape the front area. Sand and buff this part before assembly. Dry-fit the handle to check that the front is where you want it. Once it is right, finish the blade completely except sharpening, and assemble the handle with the pins in place. The two sides will be in perfect alignment.
 
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