Handled First Blade, Questions

[Sulaco]

I bought some blades to handle and finished up my first one today. I used some scales I have had forever, I think they came with some old kit I bought years ago. Some kind of died plywood.

I used cutler's rivets and epoxied the scales to the tang. I rought shaped them with hand tools and a cheap HF belt sander. I did the best I could having never done this before.

Next time I plan to just use brass or steel rod for pins and my other scales are all non-stabilized wood.

I have a couple of questions. Is acetone the best thing to prep things before glue up?

Can I use pin material that is smaller in diameter than the holes in the tang? I wasn't sure how drilling out the scales (I have a drill press) would work. I guess if I secure the tang to the scale when I drill it won't matter?

I am using DevCon 30min epoxy. Is that the best thing or is there something else? It seems to have worked really well from what I can tell. No gaps or issues after removing clamps.

What is the secret to keeping epoxy off of the blade? I wiped it up but it still got on the blade up near the ricasso and its really hard to clean off.

I have several more scales type kits to do and hope to keep improving my technique before I invest in a real belt sander, heat treat oven (want to work towards stock removal), etc. I also have a couple of rat/hidden tangs I plan to work on soon so any tips there are appreciated as well.

 

[scott kozub]

Acetone is fine. Keep wiping till cloth stays clean. Just as important is to make sure to rough up the tang and or have some through holes for epoxy to bridge.

Yes you can use pin material that is smaller than the holes in the tang. I do this intentially to make fit up easier. The void gets filled with epoxy.

To keep epoxy of blade and front of scale first dry fit the scales. Then coat the blade and front of scales with wax. I've heard of some using Vaseline as well

I've never used devcon but its fine. A lot including my self use gflex because its a little flexible for shock.

 

[weo]

Is acetone the best thing to prep things before glue up?

Not sure if it's the 'best' but it works, and a lot of folks use it. Some use denatured alcohol, but I've hear warnings that that contains methanol.

Can I use pin material that is smaller in diameter than the holes in the tang?

Yes, and it's actually a good idea to have the holes one drill size larger to make getting the pins in easier.

I guess if I secure the tang to the scale when I drill it won't matter?

This is what a lot of folks do, but you still have to be careful.

Is that the best thing or is there something else?

Again, there's debate on what's the "best" and you'll get different answers depending on who you ask. My take is that most slower curing (not the 5 miniute) epoxies are good enough.

What is the secret to keeping epoxy off of the blade?

Diligent wiping with acetone and Q-tips and keep going back every few minutes until it's gone.

If you haven't already, I'd suggest using the custom search engine in the stickies for each of your questions. The info is out there and these questions have been discussed in the past, as well as a recent discussion on how to remove epoxy from the blade that squeezes out.

 

[Sulaco]

Great thanks! I like to ask lots of questions that have already been answered to get he most out of my membership.

Just messing around! Thanks all I appreciate the info! I plan to try and get several more kits together while I have this rare Christmas break and then order some stock to start grinding on. Anyone have a favorite belt material for stock removal on a cheap HF 4x36?

Merry Christmas all!

 

[weo]

I like to ask lots of questions that have already been answered to get he most out of my membership.

Well...OK, but I bet you'll get more info than you want with the search..
Have fun!

 

[Sulaco]

I believe it and will definitely spend time searching! Thanks again!

 

[Hengelo_77]

Clean with alcohol before epoxy, remove wet epoxy with acetone.
Acetone leaves stains on steel, so it may seem you have epoxybon your blade butbis is just acetone stains.
I use bits of folded coffee filter to clean with.

Have fun

 

[HSC ///]

Not sure if it's the 'best' but it works, and a lot of folks use it. Some use denatured alcohol, but I've hear warnings that that contains methanol.

Yes, and it's actually a good idea to have the holes one drill size larger to make getting the pins in easier.

This is what a lot of folks do, but you still have to be careful.

Again, there's debate on what's the "best" and you'll get different answers depending on who you ask. My take is that most slower curing (not the 5 miniute) epoxies are good enough.

Diligent wiping with acetone and Q-tips and keep going back every few minutes until it's gone.

If you haven't already, I'd suggest using the custom search engine in the stickies for each of your questions. The info is out there and these questions have been discussed in the past, as well as a recent discussion on how to remove epoxy from the blade that squeezes out.

what’s wrong with the 5 min epoxy?
Have you tried it?
I wouldn’t recommend it for a new maker as you need to be quick about what you are doing. Did you know it’s used by carter cutlery for thousands of their knives?

 

[weo]

what’s wrong with the 5 min epoxy?

I wouldn’t recommend it for a new maker as you need to be quick about what you are doing.

I think you answered your own question here.

Did you know it’s used by carter cutlery for thousands of their knives?

No, but I know a number of other respected makers who have used it at times without problems.

 

[Sulaco]

Clean with alcohol before epoxy, remove wet epoxy with acetone.
Acetone leaves stains on steel, so it may seem you have epoxybon your blade butbis is just acetone stains.
I use bits of folded coffee filter to clean with.

Have fun

Good to know! Yes, I see some acetone stains in this knife blade. Bah! Makes me mad. But I am not OCD so whatevas. It's a tool and I always heard you keep your first one, even if my first one is just a handled knife "kit", it's still my first, so I am keeping it. I put an edge on it today. That took forever. I accidentally hit the edge just behind the sharpening choil with a file lol. Woops. It's sharp now though and I got to spend time "listening" to my wife while I sharpened lol!

Coffee filter, good to know thanks!!

 

[Hengelo_77]

I got the coffee filter tip here as well. Good to share knowledge.
You can remove the acetone stains after the epoxy sets with alcohol

 

[john april]

i am under the impression that the shorter the set time, the weaker the bond. so i do not use 5 min epoxy personally. i use alcohol to wipe in front of the guard because acetone is much more aggressive and i would worry about it affecting the epoxy under the scale at the edges, and alcohol is strong enough to dissolve the uncured epoxy. i check and wipe the front every half hour until no more seeps out. its usually 3-4 times. for cured epoxy yes, acetone will dissolve it.

 

[Matt Rochester]

I’m assuming by your profile picture you are in SC? If so what part? I’m in the upstate around Clemson.

 

[HSC ///]

i am under the impression that the shorter the set time, the weaker the bond. so i do not use 5 min epoxy personally.

It is. But how much do you need and what is the point of diminishing returns.

The shear strength of devcon 5 min is 1400 PSI. Do you need more than that?
The shear strength of g/flex is 1400 and higher depending on the material that is being bonded. The highest rating is with G10 material. Lower for Wood bonding.

5 min epoxy has its place and is another tool. If you are making a lot of knives it can be quite appropriate. But to think that’s it’s inadequate is misinformed in my opinion

 

[Sulaco]

I’m assuming by your profile picture you are in SC? If so what part? I’m in the upstate around Clemson.

Hey Matt, Yes Sir, in South Carolina! I am in Lexington, so a ways from you. I am a Clemson man though. GO TIGERS!

 

[FredyCro]

I have picked up that tip here and I much prefer using wd40 on removing epoxy after the glue up. I will also use qtips without any solvent to remove the bulk of it before coming down on it with wd40. Come back to your work after 10 or 20 mins to check up because the epoxy might expand on you and there might be more of it (even if you worked it really clean after the initial glue up). Try tapering your next handle and rounding it more off. Look at makers on YouTube shaping handles and try to mark they moves. How is the handle positioned, where is the blade, where are they putting the pressure when grinding and similar. Even your cheap belts sander should work wonders on the handle material. Good luck.

 

[CasePeanut]

I'm another newbie and I found this article from Fiddleback Forge to be really helpful. Great explanations and pictures. Especially on "the poop test" http://knife-gear.com/get-a-grip/

 

[Sulaco]

Thanks so much everyone great info! I know a lot can be gleaned from reading past posts and FAQs, etc. but there is also a wealth of information posting like this and allowing others to share where they are in their journey.

Merry Christmas!

 

[weo]

It is. But how much do you need and what is the point of diminishing returns.

The shear strength of devcon 5 min is 1400 PSI. Do you need more than that?
The shear strength of g/flex is 1400 and higher depending on the material that is being bonded. The highest rating is with G10 material. Lower for Wood bonding.

5 min epoxy has its place and is another tool. If you are making a lot of knives it can be quite appropriate. But to think that’s it’s inadequate is misinformed in my opinion

Thanks for finding that. I was looking for the info to compare shear strengths but ran out of time.

IMO, the 5 minute stuff just sets too quick for me. Just last night I was putting a WA handle on a kitchen knife and the only epoxy I had on hand didn't have a label, but turns out it was most likely 5 minute and by the time I had mixed it thoroughly with the ebony dust to color it black, spread it on the bolster that was already press-fit onto the blade, added the 4 spacers I was using spreading the epoxy on each layer, it was starting to set up as I was trying to pour it into the hole of the handle. I got it all together, but I was nervous as heck and had to rush the assembly way more than I was comfortable with.

 

[Randydb]

I'm no expert on epoxies but I use 5 minute, 30 minute, and gflex epoxy for different things. I have plastic reusable "mini spatulas" for mixing. One thing I have noticed is the gflex is far more flexible and difficult to remove from the spatulas than the 5 minute epoxy when they are dried. The 5 minute is much more brittle once it is dried. 30 minute epoxy I use is somewhere between gflex and 5 minute for being brittle/flexible/strong in my experience.
I have read a number of threads here discussing the merits of epoxies and from what I read it seemed there were real advantages to the slower setting epoxies. I would suggest reading through some of them. They certainly have me using gflex for my scales.

I wrap my blade with masking tape and do the "wipe the front of the scales 3 or 4 times" to get off excess epoxy. I also sharpened a 1/4" piece of round brass that I use to scrape any excess glue off the front of the scales when it has dried. It won't mark the steel on the blade, but will do a great job of removing excess dried epoxy.

I started knife making like you. Bought some blades and put scales on them. I was too cheap to buy a Helle Tamagami for $230cdn but noticed I could buy a Temagami blank for $75 cdn. I figured I was good enough at wood work that I could make a handle. Off I went. I did a few of them and learned to shape the handles and then started making blades. Now I have built a grinder and the only thing I don't do myself is heat treating.

I can't see really well on your picture, but it looks to me like you could round the edges more on your knife. Look at examples of handles. I tend to go for a "oval" shape as you look at them from the end and bit of a pop bottle shape as you look along the length. Yours looks a bit flat to me.
The Temagami I did 5ish years ago is an off centered oval and is pretty banged up now, but it feels good in my hand. It has been my every day carry at work forever. I make much better handles now, but it was my first one and I really like it. I spend a lot of time feeling the handle in my hand and seeing what it feels like now as I shape it. I work a lot with a rasp when I get close.


Now I tend to make a knife or two, use them for a few weeks as my every day carry and then give them away when I find the right person for them and go back to the temagami.

Here is a few pictures.