Handles and Pommels: Workmanship Discussion

M

MrMike

Joined
Jan 22, 2006
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147
Anyone have any photo examples of handles with imperfections (irregularities in the bone or wood that you would deem subpar), or pommels that are in rough shape on receipt?

I'd like to bench what is acceptable for hand-crafted work with basic tools vs. sloppy workmanship.

My new Bura 18" siru has a pretty big "zorch" in the black bone handle near the bolster. It was compacted with buffing rouge which I tried to buff out with fine sandpaper. Looked like hell actually. It's glass smooth now, but there is a divot that detracts from the symmetry. Oddly enough, when I handle it the divot matches my left index finger when gripped and keeps it aligned when swinging. (I'm a lefty.)

The pommel is peened ok. The keeper is not symmetrical at all. It was pinned crooked. The flared end of the pommel grip also veers off at about a 5-degree angle on one side. The pommel has a hammer mark like it was hit hard with a punch either to set it in the laha or because of a missed swing.

I'll send photos if needed. Not stating I want to return it - just wondering if this is more common than not.

The blade itself is perfect - stunning workmanship by Bura. Arrow straight and very hard temper line at the sweet spot. I now realize how heavy my Sher CAK is compared to this knife.
 
I wouldnt say it's a common thing, but is probably to be expected on a handmade product, to an extent. None of my H.I. pieces is exactly perfect,even the nicer ones. If it was a DOTD item it is expected to have imperfections. I'm sure if you wanted to exchange it, something could be worked out with Aunt Yangdu.
 
Some are nicer than others and you can't be sure what you're getting until it arrives. That has been my experience with the DOTD. Most often I am more than pleased.
 
to be clear, this is not a DOTD piece. It was a custom order that took over three months to arrive.
 
MrMike said:
to be clear, this is not a DOTD piece. It was a custom order that took over three months to arrive.
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Did you contact Ms. Yangdu about this problem or did you just decide to bring it up on open forum? If the "imperfection" was something that bothered you perhaps that should have been the first thing you should have done. I have a Tibetan short sword by Bura that has a few problems but for the money it is still far better than anything else for the same money. A hand made or custom sword made in the US is still made with cutting edge equipment and materials, a hand made custom item by HI is still made on a anvil with tools that were primitive 100yrs ago and tempered with a tea kettle.
 
HARPERSGRACE said:
Did you contact Ms. Yangdu about this problem or did you just decide to bring it up on open forum? If the "imperfection" was something that bothered you perhaps that should have been the first thing you should have done. I have a Tibetan short sword by Bura that has a few problems but for the money it is still far better than anything else for the same money. A hand made or custom sword made in the US is still made with cutting edge equipment and materials, a hand made custom item by HI is still made on a anvil with tools that were primitive 100yrs ago and tempered with a tea kettle.
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Could not have said it better myself. These are not $500+ customs made with modern materials. They are handmade, working pieces of art and as such, are bound to have imperfections (all of my HI's have 'em). As has been said, if it bothers you or affects the way the piece performs (or looks, if it is a wallhanger) I'm sure Yangdu would make it right.:)
 
If it was a bad enough imperfection you should contact Yangdu, she will make it right. But remember these are not cookie cutter knives made in a factory or in a CNC machine, these are individually made one at a time by a craftsman who lives day by day crafting each blade to survive. I personally like to see some type of imperfection, or an off angled keeper, or a fuller that is not perfect with the other side, this to me gives each of my blades a soul of it own. I know that the edges on the pommel can be pretty sharp, but I also try to imagine the tool or file that hand fit that to the handle, this can be fixed with a dremel tool or a file. Just my two cents.
 
As the others have stated, if it bothers you, email Yangdu and see what she can do to help you out.

You have to keep in mind that the disposition of a kami is an odd thing. I mean this in no disrespect to these master bladesmiths. What I'm saying is that the thought process of a man who makes working knives and has made working knives his entire life for the poorest of the poor is one where a slight scuff, skew, or imperfection to the handle or bolster is even going to register to his eyes. He has been tasked with making you a beautiful knife, but a functional one that will outlive you and your grandchildren with proper care.

It might seem like a cop out to say that every imperfection gives your knife character and soul, but it really isn't. Heck, I'm not perfect (no matter what my mama may tell me :D). I have a busted little finger that doesn't work too well anymore, I have nice scar from a gash I received on my cheek from a workshop oopsie, my jaw pops when I chew, I have flat feet, and my shoulder blades are too big for my frame. Mom and Dad's special order didn't come out quite 100% either;)

I can promise you this, if Bura sent it out to you, it will last you 100 years of hard use. If it really does bother you, give Yangdu an shout and she should be able help.
 
A hand made or custom sword made in the US is still made with cutting edge equipment and materials, a hand made custom item by HI is still made on a anvil with tools that were primitive 100yrs ago and tempered with a tea kettle.
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Finally a good use for a tea kettle. :D Don't drink tea.
I think its totally cool that they can make sword size blades with nothing but the above.
Actually like when the handle is a bit rough, more grip retention. All of them are handmade so they won't be consistent the way a production item is.

Mrmike:
HI's handles are warrantied for life [not sure about handles on dotd sales], so if something happens to it in your life time, give Yangdu a call.
 
Reading these posts, I remembered one of my favorite quotes from a Leonard Cohen song:

"There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in..."

I am usually the first to notice any imperfections in just about anything and say it aloud when others won't too. Amazingly so, when I got my first M43 from HI, I did notice a few minor, for lack of a better word, mistakes but I simply noticed and forgot. It was strange to me too because I sometimes make a fuss over machined items which have a scratch or something but here nothing. I see it in plain sight and I might even say that I like it. To have a real HANDCRAFTED and above all perfectly useful item like this, something with a soul of its own in the soulless world of mass production we live in... It is simply incredible and I for one love each and every scratch and impurity in the wood etc. It is what makes my khuk unique and like no other and I love it for it. If I wanted a "perfect" blade, I would probably consider Cold Steel or something without any soul whatsoever and something that every joe around can have e-x-a-c-t-l-y the same as I. If we all met, we could compare our khuks and no two would be the same though they all have the same name and model mark. And when you think about how these were made, my hat is off to people who make them just as they were use to be made years ago... Might be reaching a bit, but that's how I feel about it. Bottom line, judging by my own experience with Yangdu, if you had brought it up, I see no way on earth that she wouldn't make it right for you...
 
While I agree that some minor imperfections should be "expected", I also think it's important that a) people know about them, and b) that the Kamis know that people notice when their work is slipping.

Not to punish the Kamis, but to keep them accountable and keep their standards high. If I simply wanted something hard and sharp that would outlast my Grandchildren--I'd simply get a Mother-in-Law. I buy HI because I want functional art made by a craftsman who takes a great deal of pride in his work.
 
To paraphrase: This is my khukri. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.
 
Wovoka said:
To paraphrase: This is my khukri. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.
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lol I dunno if I've ever heard of an HI khuk being compared to a Glock, but hey I can dig it:D

fyi: I edc a glock
 
Thalion, Captlid and Duzzy: your words ring true - from both sides. I'm not posting to leave a complaint on the table; I take heart and view both sides and have always been one to tell it like it is. I can live with the imperfections. I'm not putting Yangdu through the hassle of returning it. The blade itself is magnificent. Thanks for the insight. It helped me put things into perspective.
 
The fastest way to bond with your Khuk is to get out and use it! Then you'll really love it.
 
I consider such minor issues "irregularities" rather than "imperfections".

If it doesn't affect function, it's an irregularity. Nothing more.

On the other hand if something breaks or comes off, THAT is an imperfection.
 
It's an issue of balance, and unfortunately I don't know where the balance point lies.

The Kamis can't redo every little thing that isn't perfect, because they would never make any progress. They only turn out a couple of Khukuris each day IIRC. If they started redoing handles, blades that weren't exactly symmetrical, etc. they would make even less. Then they'd either have to stop, or raise the price.

On the other hand, some things need to be redone, because if you ship something sub-par on the hope that it won't be a problem and it becomes one. Then on top of being out time and materials, you're also out shipping to the States, shipping within the States, and shipping back to Nepal.

And personally, the soul in a blade doesn't come from the imperfections. It comes with the intent and care of the maker. Imperfections simply prove something is made by imperfect beings, for me the fewer the mistakes the more the soul. To me it means there is more of the maker that was put into the making.
 
Wabi-sabi. You guys should look it up... good philosophy that totally applies here ;)

That all said, I agree with what most people have said... if the imperfections are aesthetic and don't impact performance, then it's to be expected: after all, these are hand crafted pieces (and with very traditional tools if I might add). The occasional time, you do have issues that aren't purely cosmetic and on those fairly rare occurrences, you'll find HI and the kamis to stand by their work like no other company.

For example, my m43's handles started to get a bit "loose" as the laha dried up and cracked... Aunty Yangdu pretty much offered to take it back and have a whole new one made up for me - she was even willing to have the kamis make it with wooden slabs as I had mentioned that the horn caused some issues. I passed on the offer and opted to fix it myself with two-part epoxy as I did not want to be advantageous of such generosity - especially with such a small company and during such trying times. However, that is the sort of dedication that HI has to its customers :)
 
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