"Handling Marks" - Am I being too critical?

[Havoc550]

I just joined this forum as I have recently started increasing my knife collection. One thing that I have noticed a lot of is the use of the term "handling marks" when describing imperfections on a blade. For example, "This knife is mint in unused, unsharpened condition with a few handling marks from over the years". Or in some cases "marks from being in storage".

I have a lot of knives that are still new in the package and are over 10-15 years old. I take them out, "handle" them, re-oil, maybe display them for a few days, then put them back up. So far, not a single one has a scrape, scratch, ding or imperfection that wasn't already there from the factory. Of all the knives I have used and/or carried, some have little to no wear, some look like they have been through a war, but every mark was put there by using the knife.

To me the term "handling" would mean to pick the knife up, look at it, admire it, maybe even do a quick knife strike into the air, but that's it. If I drop it, then its been "dropped", not "handled". If I am performing my knife strike against a make believe opponent and I hit a metal shelf, well, then "I hit a metal shelf", I didn't just "handle" the knife.

What do you guys think?

 

[Morrow]

I just joined this forum as I have recently started increasing my knife collection. One thing that I have noticed a lot of is the use of the term "handling marks" when describing imperfections on a blade. For example, "This knife is mint in unused, unsharpened condition with a few handling marks from over the years". Or in some cases "marks from being in storage".

I have a lot of knifes that are still new in the package and are over 10-15 years old. I take them out, "handle" them, re-oil, maybe display them for a few days, then put them back up. So far, not a single one has a scrape, scratch, ding or imperfection that wasn't already there from the factory. Of all the knifes I have used and/or carried, some have little to no wear, some look like they have been through a war, but every mark was put there by using the knife.

To me the term "handling" would mean to pick the knife up, look at it, admire it, maybe even do a quick knife strike into the air, but that's it. If I drop it, then its been "dropped", not "handled". If I am performing my knife strike against a make believe opponent and I hit a metal shelf, well, then "I hit a metal shelf", I didn't just "handle" the knife.

What do you guys think?

I think if I looked close enough I could find handling or storage marks on some of your knives.

 

[Gravelface]

Some of my knives are sheathed in kydex and depending on the fit, it can touch the blade ever so slightly. So while some are unused, they do display "handling" marks.

 

[KNaB]

 

[Toyz]

Pretty much every knife I have has handling marks - some from just simply opening / closing a few times or removing from the sheath if it is a fixed blade.

If someone is selling and using that terminology then I applaud - it's better to let a buyer know that there might be a few marks on the knife.

If I want that particular knife bad enough I will gladly deal with handling marks - as all of my knives are purchased with the intent of using them. All knives have a break in period before the parts mate and the knife acts like it was designed to act - that means marks from use / carry.

If I'm buying a $4000 fighter or a $3000 art deco knife with the intent of it being an investment then I want it to be clean.

 

[JNewell]

Heck, a lot come right from the factory with handling marks. It's life...

 

[somber]

It's a knife. I'm a man, and unless it doesn't do what it's meant to do, I couldn't care less about a 'handling mark'.

 

[Dorito Monk]

It's funny to see people advertise their knives as "Brand new mint in box some scratches from sharpening," or "Mint in package, some marks from normal wear." One would have thought that if the knife were in new condition in the box, it can't possibly have scratches from carry, use, or sharpening.

It seems to be a tactic people use to sell their stuff at a 'new in box' price, even though their stuff would, by anyone else's standards, be considered 'used'. If people admit that they scratched up their knives, they'd have to admit that they aren't in perfect mint condition, so they use the term 'handling marks' so they can keep the price up. At least, that's how I look at it.

 

[jbmonkey]

maybe even do a quick knife strike into the air, but that's it. If I am performing my knife strike against a make believe opponent and I hit a metal shelf, well, then "I hit a metal shelf", I didn't just "handle" the knife.

What do you guys think?

no comment on this part. i would like to see a video of those "handling" tasks in action though.

as usual every person has their own view on what handling means. most reasonable folks i think mean at the least....handled as in opened closed/pulled in and out of the sheath in looking, but not using, and such, etc. at the worst..... carried in a pocket a couple of times, cut up some paper, just looked at played with, edge tested on paper and such. never really used to do any real work.

 

[midnight flyer]

I think the important part for you would be to identify yourself as a collector, not a user when you buy. Make sure you and your seller use words like "mint" and phrases like "pristine" etc. Only buy knives that you are sure have no handling, no scratches, no wear marks, no sharpening..... nothing.

Get a lot of pictures from all angles before you buy. When it is a subjective observation, you can't expect others to agree with you, so get the proof you require and don't buy anything sight unseen.

Robert

 

[Cold Kill]

I can understand "handling marks". Quite a few of my knives have not really been used (to the point that it would mark the knife), but most of them have scratches from just opening. Some of my fixed blades have sheath marks. My Delica is really scratched up from just the pivot (which is oiled and clean, so it is not grit). It now looks pretty bad, but I never planned on selling it, so no big deal.

 

[neuron]

It's funny to see people advertise their knives as "Brand new mint in box some scratches from sharpening," or "Mint in package, some marks from normal wear." One would have thought that if the knife were in new condition in the box, it can't possibly have scratches from carry, use, or sharpening.

It seems to be a tactic people use to sell their stuff at a 'new in box' price, even though their stuff would, by anyone else's standards, be considered 'used'. If people admit that they scratched up their knives, they'd have to admit that they aren't in perfect mint condition, so they use the term 'handling marks' so they can keep the price up. At least, that's how I look at it.

Agreed. I always roll my eyes and move along when I see descriptions like that on the Exchange, and I think your diagnosis of why people do it is right on the mark.

 

[Popsickle]

i can understand some normal marks from factory. but dont call it NIB if you carried it and it has marks on the pocket clip
i bought a strider SnG that was sent to me with rust on the spine where you [put your thumb as well as on the thumb stud on the knife..... even after the guy got it back and refunded me he tried to tell me he couldnt see it. i told him to take a flashlight to it, no response after that.

 

[Havoc550]

Thanks for the feedback. I need to go correct my post now, I see that I used the plural of knife as "knifes", thanks for not drilling me on it.

Normally the knives I buy that are discontinued are for collecting purposes only. I have some personal issue with beating up a knife that is out of production and is still brand new. I do usually probe the seller for more information, but sometimes you can only get so much out of them and you have to chance it.

And there are no videos of me performing a knife strike at a metal shelf, I just made that up as a bad example I have no training in how to use a knife in a combat situation so I don't pretend to.

 

[RevDevil]

Using the word knifes is not as bad as selling a knife as NIB while you have a picture of it stabbed through a piece of wood as your main image. There must be a wide margin of confusion over what a NIB, LNIB, and USED knife is. I keep seeing sales thread after sales thread featuring a NIB knife that has been "gently" carried and "gently" used. Some people would definitely benefit a great deal by using a dictionary to look up the terminology they use in their threads. At this point it is safe to say that common sense doesn't even enter into the equation for some. I will pass on those threads all together, no matter how bad I want a knife.

 

[singularity35]

Using the word knifes is not as bad as selling a knife as NIB while you have a picture of it stabbed through a piece of wood as your main image. There must be a wide margin of confusion over what a NIB, LNIB, and USED knife is. I keep seeing sales thread after sales thread featuring a NIB knife that has been "gently" carried and "gently" used. Some people would definitely benefit a great deal by using a dictionary to look up the terminology they use in their threads. At this point it is safe to say that common sense doesn't even enter into the equation for some. I will pass on those threads all together, no matter how bad I want a knife.

I do think most people selling are well-educated enough to differentiate between those terms. Truthfulness might be another matter and has little to do with education.

 

[EagleScouter]

NIB- Just as described, New in Box. Not touched.
LNIB- Taken out and handled. Marks may be left by handling, thus the term "handling marks." This includes marks from opening, closing, etc.
Used- The knife has cut something. Or you dropped the open blade on concrete and now it looks like crap.

Pretty simple to me.

 

[Cold Kill]

NIB- Just as described, New in Box. Not touched.
LNIB- Taken out and handled. Marks may be left by handling, thus the term "handling marks." This includes marks from opening, closing, etc.
Used- The knife has cut something. Or you dropped the open blade on concrete and now it looks like crap.

Pretty simple to me.

That is if the merchant/seller is honest. Honesty is nearly non-existent these days. The average chart today would be more like
NIB- Not used, but most likely lightly used. Hard to tell if it was used or not, but obscure picture angles will fix that.
Like new- Was carries, but the seller didn't like it. Light wear, but again, obscure camera angles.
Used- The seller is downsizing or found something else. You can tell it has been used from every angle.

Sad, but usually true. Not saying anything good or bad about the sellers on here, not bought anything here (not a fan of paypal), just speaking of sellers in general.

 

[neuron]

That is if the merchant/seller is honest. Honesty is nearly non-existent these days. The average chart today would be more like
NIB- Not used, but most likely lightly used. Hard to tell if it was used or not, but obscure picture angles will fix that.
Like new- Was carries, but the seller didn't like it. Light wear, but again, obscure camera angles.
Used- The seller is downsizing or found something else. You can tell it has been used from every angle.

Sad, but usually true. Not saying anything good or bad about the sellers on here, not bought anything here (not a fan of paypal), just speaking of sellers in general.

I think you're being a bit cynical here. The vast majority of people selling on the Exchange here on BladeForums are honest in their representation of the knives they're selling. If they say a knife is NIB, LNIB, etc., you have very good reason to believe that's what its condition really is.

 

[singularity35]

I think you're being a bit cynical here. The vast majority of people selling on the Exchange here on BladeForums are honest in their representation of the knives they're selling. If they say a knife is NIB, LNIB, etc., you have very good reason to believe that's what its condition really is.

Oh yes. I have bought about half my knives from the exchange and the sellers I have dealt with and bought from are very honest. I hear about a few bad apples though. Fortunately, I haven't had the bad luck to deal with those.