Hanshees, Collecting and Random Thoughts

Joined
Dec 28, 2003
Messages
4,793
Hey guys. I had a couple of things to write about and thought I would combine them into one thread. I started looking at my collection a few months ago, and again lately in light of the "how many do you own" thread. I made a list last year, but hadn't updated it in quite a while. I recently sold about a dozen items, but then snagged Salyans and got my FF, etc, so offset that a bit. I also did not want to be seen at all as boasting, as inevitably someone would take it that way, so even when Danny asked me outright a few months ago on a thread I just did not respond.

I am not better off than most people, I just made the decision to divert everything to this passion, and stopped all my other pursuits to that end. Anyway, I started cataloging stuff yesterday, and finished today, and let's just say that I need to get it down to a couple of hundred anyway or my wife will leave me! Closet racks, a large display cabinet, two wall racks and a gun cabinet that now contains no guns are all full, as is the available space in two bookcases.

I hope it is not a violation of forum rules (which I still don't quite understand) to simply say I will be parting with some items some time in the future, and leave it at that.

As I started going through the collection pulling out dupe items and others that I like but just do not interest me that much anymore, I started reflecting on the intangibles that make a knife desirable. True edges, well fitted scabbards, wood to metal fit, straight handles, good bolsters, overall handling and balance, well cut non-creep chos, etc., etc., etc.

Of course much of this is individual and subjective and depends on each persons size, strength, hand size, preferences etc. I found myself coming up with a preponderance of the "smaller" knives, 15" and less, to part with, while keeping the larger stuff. I didn't get into the smaller biltons and chits of 8-9" OAL, but will have to do a separate pass on those.

While I was going through these, the mail arrived with last weeks paycheck wrapped up. From there I pulled that great Sher carved chandan sword from 10/4, (see link)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367153

and the Sher Special from 10/5. (The one on the shell (-:)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=367281

Yangdu had called it a "Sher Special" when Dean got his on 9/27 with the neem handle, and here she called it a new model, but I'll stick with the first name.

The reason this was of interest (to me anyway!) is that this Sher special hanshee is almost the twin of the original Rod Allen hanshee that Danny had made 2-3 years ago I guess, except it has a standard bolster and zero cho creep. I bought this from Danny a couple of weeks ago, and it is very unique and a one-of-a-kind knife, but this new one is almost it's twin. Amazing timing! Danny had blued the blade and done a great rework of the handle though, and it is a pleasure to hold.

This is also notable from an evolutionary standpoint, because the new knife which was sold for about $15-$20 off as a blem because of a horn crack, is perfectly done. It is traditional in every way. The bolster is small and well crafted and traditional. The cho is exactly 1/2" from the bolster and very well done. The blade is straight as a die, and the scabbard fit is perfect. There is no comparison between the fit of this knife to this scabbard and what I see on dozens of other knives. I can turn this upside down and shake it vigorously and the knife will not budge. And yet when I draw it, the knife slides smoothly out with just the right amount of resistance. If I tried that with 100 of the others I have the knife would hit the deck. That does not mean that those scabbards are _all_ poorly fitted by any means, just that this is that much better.

I do not want this to be considered a criticism of HI quality, as I would not own so many if I thought the quality was deficient, but simply an observation on what I would hope is a sign of an even higher renewed attention to fit, finish and quality. My biggest complaint of HI knives, and again I hope that this will be taken with regards to my support of the company, is not the knives themselves, but the often poor fit of the scabbards which are obviously not always made with the knife being present, relying on the habaki bolster to take up the variables in fit. Without that bolster, you usually get scabbards like this.

I guess I am just saying that I think this whole rig is outstanding, and I sincerely hope that we start seeing more and more of this kind of work. I would rather start paying a bit more and expect this level of work, than pay less and have the blades be 10/10 but some of the supporting features not be up to what they could be.

FYI, here are just a couple of quick pics of both knives together. The Rod Allen Hanshee is 18.5" and 24 oz, while the Sher special hanshee is 18" and 22 oz. However the RAH has more of a pronounced curve, so the actual length if measured along the blade as opposed from pommel to point would be considerably more than just 1/2" longer than the new blade.

Sorry for the typically long post!

Regards,

Norm

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You are a real student of these things, Norm.

Congrats on recent stuff... you could do a neat photo website, kind of an online khuk museum.. like gator97....but with even more khuks...

Pity JP's book isn't out. We always can use more info... Catalog, no, an online compendium of HI's evolution of products.


Ad Astra
 
There's at least a couple of other people who have well over a hundred HIs, Norm. Some of us just have HIKV bad . :eek: ;) Except for target shooting, HIs are really my main hobby right now. Some of us have many hobbies, some of us only a few.

Bob
 
I wouldn't worry about the amount of khuks for as single second, Norm, and I don't think any thought along those lines would even occur to the majority of people in this forum.

I've heard the idea expressed previously about the Habaki bolster allowing more varience in the sheath, and I'm not comfortable believing that. It seems to me there is a way to make a sheath fit and a way to make a sheath 'almost fit' a large number of khuks, and I don't think the bolster has a lot to do with it. If you want to make a sheath fit a large amount of khuks I think the important thing would be knowing which style of bolster you had to deal with, and go from there. A traditional bolster will not stop mediocre sheath fit if the maker of sheaths is cutting corners and aiming for the 'one size fits all' rather than more individual detail. Remember though, I'm just a moderator here. I'm not HI Imports. I don't know what happens in Nepal, and as far as you and me talking side by side about it tonight, we're just two friends wondering together.

I do agree that many HI sheaths do not fit as well as you would like from the Deals of the Day and Blems. Frankly, I'm not willing to spend another 20 to 50 bucks bucks per blade just to have the sheath fit exactly right every time. Also, what you consider 'right' and what I consider 'right' may be different. I think by the time they come through the Monsoon season, and head to diverse places like the Mojave Desert or Portland Oregon, that would be very hard to do anyway. If it were important to me, I'd have called or written Yangdu and paid Shopping Site price to get the right fit. If I went to the Shopping site and recieved what I thought was an illfit sheath, HI Imports has always put the Customer first. I probably would have asked or offered to pay more to find what I wanted.

It would not occur to me to expect everything perfect in Blems or Deals of the Day. Those khuks are a priviledge to buy, and I don't want any thing interupting the flow of great blades at great prices.

I do believe one thing you and I will agree upon is that HI under Yangdu is getting even better than the high standards it previously had. You guys wanted tradtional bolsters- Yangdu said it would happen, and we're seeing them. I don't know how much 'old stock' there is or what the deal is about it. Like you, Norm, I don't want anyone to misunderstand what I'm saying. On a personal level, I'm wondering what I can do to both support HI and make my desires known about the product line. I'm hesitant because my friends Rusty and Bill were here just a short time ago, and I'm still not over their being gone, and I know Mary and Yangdu are not either, and they had a lot more to lose.

Norm- I wrote Yangdu and told her about loose sheaths and how it would be nice if the Sheath makers could be more careful. I just hope someone doesn't ask HI for an atomic fence post hole digger.


munk
 
Thanks Munk. I personally believe that the greater attention to detail that is required in forming a standard bolster and correctly placed and fitted cho, leads in turn to superior scabbards. It's like one flows from the other. I have too many knives with habaki bolsters and loose scabbards, and too many with standard bolsters and nicely fitting scabbards to come to any other conclusion. If the scabbard is fitted to the habaki bolster nicely, then it will obviously _only_ grip the knife well for that 3/8 of an inch or so. If it is fit to the blade, then it fits for a much larger area. That seems evident to me.

At the same time, I have a bunch of knives with habaki bolsters, that I have spoken of before, where the knife just "clicks" perfectly in place and doesn't move an inch, so I know you are right that it can be the individual effort and not always the bolster.

Yes there are variables because of the various climates, and after all they are natural materials involved, but this is beyond that. I'm just saying that when I get a very well done knife now, just outstanding in all respects, from a kami who just did a knife with an habaki bolster and cho creep and a loose scabbard the week before, I notice it, and do my best from 12,000 miles away to encourage it. I think that is my responsibility as a supporter. When I get a good knife I write each time and tell Yangdu what I liked about it, and ocassionally what I don't, and am sure she passes that info on.

99 times out of a hundred, if there is a problem I say nothing, and try to fix it myself, and certainly don't post a thread about it here for the world to see, and am not asking you or any of the forum moderators to act as a complaint dept. That is not my intention, and I have correspondence weekly with Yandgu regardless. Usually any problems are minor and are easily fixed anyway. I have 3 NKH blades with nice steel and horribly finshed handles, and 3 HI scabbards right now in the shop that require leather in the scabbard throats and to cover the karda / chakmak nails. Minor stuff.

There is no doubt in my mind that innovation and creativity is alive and well at Birgorkha. The explosion of new models, new wood types, more creative design features and craftsmanship has never been better, and more and more knives than ever are coming with traditional features. Even the Seax's now are coming with standard bolsters, which they never did before.

When we do a large special order like the FF, and the first things we ask for as a group are "standard bolsters and no cho creep and well-fitted scabbards", I think the Kamis pay attention. There is a reason the Salyans have those features, or I should say there is a reason why those knives honoring Uncle Bill and Yangdu do _not_ have the non-traditional features.

I believe the standard knife takes longer to make and more time, which is the only reason I would be willing to encourage it by paying more. An extra $10 or $15 is all it would take to get that message across, and offset their losses due to taking more time and thanking them for their best efforts. We've all seen the prices drop anyway while the quality has improved, so these are now a better deal than they have ever been IMO.

I know you were joking, but I don't see a parallel between encouraging these features and asking for a Buck Rogers atomic gadget they could not possibly make. And thanks for writing to Yangdu, but she knows this already.

I have to add also that you seem to draw a clear distinction between the DOTD and the blems and the shopping site. I don't. I have bought from all 3 and the quality is identical in my estimation. This last near perfect Sher Special was a YBB/DOTD, and was sold as a blem because of a minor crack. I have never seen a blem sold because it had a loose scabbard. I have had shopping site ones with these problems and deals of the day that were incredible and blems that I could not find a damned thing wrong with. They all come out of the same bucket, and thank goodness because we get first rate stuff on the Deals at fantastic prices.

By comparison, the Shopping Site should charge more because you are ordering something that may not be in the channel for a long time to come. When's the last time we saw a Gelbu Special on a daily deal? Or a spotted deer horn Dhankuta? Or a Garud? You could wait quite a while for one to show up. That's why on the very few times I have asked Yangdu for something outside the DOTD, I always expect and offer to pay a premium over those daily deal prices. It would be unfair to do otherwise.


Regards,

Norm
 
We'll just have to disagree about bolsters. If anything, the Habaki is harder to fit well- because it is hard to know where the bolster will ultimately fit in it's final rest in the sheath, and therefore the knife. I think the traditional are easier, not harder, to fit well. It slides into the sheath and stops.

I don't own hundreds, though I may have handled almost that by now. There are only a few of my HI khuks with loose sheaths. There is one too tight.

HI has always offered khuks with traditional features.


munk
 
The Rod Allen Hanshee was a piece I never wanted to sell, but I finally found a hanshee I liked even more and I REALLY needed the cash. I would tell you all about it, but I bought it from a different company and out of respect for HI, I'm not going to. If you look hard you'll find it.
I felt kinda guilty about the money I have spent on these toys.
I did, until my wife and my friends slapped me out of that.
I had no idea, but apparently, lots of guys spend lots of money on drugs and alcohol, gambling, expensive cars, fast women, bass boats and other $hit.

Also, these very same people seem to think that we knife and sword collectors somehow have a more noble pasttime, something that shouldn't be lumped together with those other money-pits.

they are probably right.
 
There's a lot to respond to here.

A bolster? It's just a little piece of metal. Hell, my MkIII doesn't even have a bolster. Habaki, traditional - from a functional standpoint, I don't see what the problem is. I've never heard of someone criticizing a nihonto's balance or strength on the grounds that it's mounted with a habaki bolster...why should anything else be any different?

Do I like the look? Not really. I don't like the look of cho creep either. Never had a khuk with either (or both) break yet, but I may not be trying hard enough.

My own personal opinion is that it is indeed a shortcut to a better scabbard fit. So be it. I was never too concerned with scabbard fit anyway. By the time it arrives in Silverdale by way of Reno, it's safe to assume that it's no longer fitting the way it originally did. If it bothers me I adjust it. It's not difficult to do. By the time the summer (or winter) rolls around I'm going to have to adjust it again anyway. It's only been raining for a week here and my scabbards are shifting already. (The good news is, it should continue to rain until May, making further adjustments unnecessary for quite some time.)

But I (like many of you) am seeing new models, traditional bolsters, straighter lines, more graceful curves, better balance and new handle materials. I like this. We're witnessing something very extraordinary here, and it's a great time to be involved.

I'm seeing real improvements in quality. My seax (purchased last year, just prior to the holidays) was made by Bura while he was still recovering. The blade's straight but the edge is wavy, the lines aren't clean and there are numerous small flaws - I hadn't even really noticed them until today when it got the full monty. (Full sharpening to hair popping, full etch, etc.) It's a solid user but it's not pretty. I compare it to a Salyan from a few weeks ago and I'm floored...the difference is night and day. I've seen it with the other kamis as well. Things are getting better.

(By the way, I didn't go through the trouble of polishing up the old seax and constructing a new sheath for it for nothing. This sucker's back in the rotation.)

I've already mentioned the difference in hamons that I'm seeing in several other threads - no need to go here again.

Norm, I'm glad to hear that you got that special. I would've pulled the trigger on that one in a heartbeat - it looks like just what the doctor ordered for these blackberries. Perhaps the next one is mine.
 
munk said:
We'll just have to disagree about bolsters. If anything, the Habaki is harder to fit well- because it is hard to know where the bolster will ultimately fit in it's final rest in the sheath, and therefore the knife. I think the traditional are easier, not harder, to fit well. It slides into the sheath and stops.
munk

??? Well, I want to say "Exactly! We're not disagreeing at all!" The habaki is harder to fit well, so they don't want to take the time. Time is production and that translates to dollars. But it would seem to me that the traditional would take a bit more finessing with the sheath dimensions. There is a thinner gap to work with and less tolerance for error. It would be easier to measure the blade length, but you would have to be exact and account perfectly for the blade thickness taper.

As for the effort involved in making a kinfe with a trad. bolster vs. a habaki one, I have no idea which is harder, if either.

Norm
 
Norm;
The atomic whatever is just a joke, it was not intended to minimize your observations, but keep the tone good here.

>>>>>> And thanks for writing to Yangdu, but she knows this already>>>>>> Norm

Then why are you talking about it? What was it you wanted? Yangdu listened and we have the traditional bolster. I mention deals of day because I don't want anything to interupt those incredible deals, and 'sheath fit' could conceivably do that. If sheath fit were that important, I'd have asked for it when I purchased. Your point about sheath fit being the same for DOD and Shopping site is probably correct. It seems reasonable. I hope HI continues to improve it's already great line and value, and I know you do too.


munk
 
Dave Rishar said:
There's a lot to respond to here.

A bolster? It's just a little piece of metal. Hell, my MkIII doesn't even have a bolster. Habaki, traditional - from a functional standpoint, I don't see what the problem is. I've never heard of someone criticizing a nihonto's balance or strength on the grounds that it's mounted with a habaki bolster...why should anything else be any different?

Do I like the look? Not really. I don't like the look of cho creep either. Never had a khuk with either (or both) break yet, but I may not be trying hard enough.

My own personal opinion is that it is indeed a shortcut to a better scabbard fit. So be it. I was never too concerned with scabbard fit anyway. By the time it arrives in Silverdale by way of Reno, it's safe to assume that it's no longer fitting the way it originally did. If it bothers me I adjust it. It's not difficult to do. By the time the summer (or winter) rolls around I'm going to have to adjust it again anyway. It's only been raining for a week here and my scabbards are shifting already. (The good news is, it should continue to rain until May, making further adjustments unnecessary for quite some time.)

But I (like many of you) am seeing new models, traditional bolsters, straighter lines, more graceful curves, better balance and new handle materials. I like this. We're witnessing something very extraordinary here, and it's a great time to be involved.

I'm seeing real improvements in quality. My seax (purchased last year, just prior to the holidays) was made by Bura while he was still recovering. The blade's straight but the edge is wavy, the lines aren't clean and there are numerous small flaws - I hadn't even really noticed them until today when it got the full monty. (Full sharpening to hair popping, full etch, etc.) It's a solid user but it's not pretty. I compare it to a Salyan from a few weeks ago and I'm floored...the difference is night and day. I've seen it with the other kamis as well. Things are getting better.

(By the way, I didn't go through the trouble of polishing up the old seax and constructing a new sheath for it for nothing. This sucker's back in the rotation.)

I've already mentioned the difference in hamons that I'm seeing in several other threads - no need to go here again.

Norm, I'm glad to hear that you got that special. I would've pulled the trigger on that one in a heartbeat - it looks like just what the doctor ordered for these blackberries. Perhaps the next one is mine.


I think a variable Dave mentions here is one I don't have to deal with, that of adjusting the scabbard. Someone mentioned the other day in a thread that Pala I believe used to have to adjust his a couple of times a year when he was in the service. (I believe it was Pala.) The weather is so mild here that once I have tweaked a scabbard to fit, that's it! It never changes after that as near as I can tell.

In a way the slightly looser scabbard is easier to fix than a tight one. I only have one very tight one which is on an old Shop 1 AK, and it is dangerous as hell to get the knife out. Much sweating and swearing and careful wiggling and easing it out and hoping it doesn't decide to pop out. It must have shrunk significantly at one time and has stabilized that way, or else it was just made that way. Usually a piece of leather in the throat will do nicely to tighten up a loose one.

I agree with Danny on the hobby thing. Bob mentioned it as well. I used to dabble in other hobbies, and still do but not to the same extent anymore. And I do know guys who spend an equivalent of a nice new kukri a week at the bar, or more on other drugs, or on very expensive cars. So it's all what floats your boat.

Speaking of which, I don't know if any of you guys sail, but a friend of mine has a sailboat and just had to buy some special paint for the hull that cost like $300 a gallon? Does that sound right? He's got a beautiful sailboat but pours every dime he has into it.

Regards,

Norm
 
munk said:
Norm;
The atomic whatever is just a joke, it was not intended to minimize your observations, but keep the tone good here.

>>>>>> And thanks for writing to Yangdu, but she knows this already>>>>>> Norm

Then why are you talking about it? What was it you wanted? Yangdu listened and we have the traditional bolster. I mention deals of day because I don't want anything to interupt those incredible deals, and 'sheath fit' could conceivably do that. If sheath fit were that important, I'd have asked for it when I purchased. Your point about sheath fit being the same for DOD and Shopping site is probably correct. It seems reasonable. I hope HI continues to improve it's already great line and value, and I know you do too.


munk


I'm talking about it to draw attention to the forum to this great knife I got and why I feel that it IS great. I am hoping that others will share this viewpoint and because of that we will get more of the same. We all have Yangdu's email and don't need to post here or have you and the other moderators speak for us, although I know you would be willing to do so.

Obviously Yangdu knows of the issue, and I certainly didn't have to tell her. The lady is an expert in khukuris and was raised with them, but is trying to control a difficult business a half a world away. If things are very occassionally marginal, and she hears nothing from us, then why would anyone in her position assume that there was a problem? She is a one-woman show and is doing yeomans work just keeping things afloat, and doesn't have time to examine very blade in detail That's our job as buyers, and as members here, and that is the only reason why I try to give her periodic _private_ feedback, usually positive.

We talk about khukuris here and I wanted to share my observations as to what makes a good one for _me_. Just because I mention that some features are not ocassionally to my liking does not make it an issue that has to be escalated.

YMMV, but enough people have asked for these things in the specials we have done, that I think that has driven a lot of this new innovation and features. Scabbard fit IS important, as a loose one is unsafe, and I don't see how scabbard fit would effect the flow of the DOTD regardless. Scabbard fit is not something anyone should have to ask for in my book. If your position is that the DOTD are so important that they should not be affected by any quality issue, then I disagree. If your position is that you would not want the DOTD affected because scabbard fit is not that big of a deal to you, then cool.

Again, I have the feeling that I'm coming across as a malcontent, and that is not the case or my intention. The majority of my scabbards fit adequately, with many being excellent. It's just one factor that I look at closely when evaluating a blade. I no more would ask for a knife to have a properly fitted scabbard than I would say "and please give me one that has a cho, a straight blade with a bevel and a buttcap that isn't loose." (The FF were so special that we specified it as we did not want to leave any doubt at all and they were excellent.)

munk said:
The atomic whatever is just a joke, it was not intended to minimize your observations, but keep the tone good here.

Sure Munk, no problem. The scary thing is they could probably build one. :D

I hope HI continues to improve it's already great line and value, and I know you do too.

Absolutely, and I am 100% convinced that it will! I'm really glad to be here during all this new flush of building, so to speak.

Thanks,

Norm
 
I'll go on record here by saying that scabbard fit (when we're talking of leather wrapped, wooden scabbards) is probably too difficult to control reliably to be angry about.

They're made in Nepal. They make their way to Reno. (Sitting in various warehouses for who knows how long on the way.) They're stored in Reno for an unknown amount of time before moving on to any climate that we can imagine.

Fact is, we shouldn't be too harsh if they don't fit right on arrival. That's the way it is with wood, fabricated on the other side of the world and stored in a desert. ;)

I'd still rather have the sarkis erring on the side of looseness rather than tightness. Loose is easy to fix. Tight is a PITA.
 
I've always loved the HI products. They are almost an obsession with me, as they are to some of you as well.

Like Norm, I'm seeing even better work coming from BirGorkha. This is in no way a criticism of previous work, just that they are doing even better.

Hmmm. When I think of how much a bass boat costs, I don't feel so bad about my khukuris. :)

Steve
 
I dont mean to say that bass boat owners are evil, nor that motorcycle guys are crazy, but those hobbies eat lots of cash and resources and are potentially more dangerous than kukuris and swords.
 
Danny, I didn't take it the wrong way.

Just trying to rationalize my hobby!

Steve
 
My dad had a bass boat. He had to sell it when my little sister was born ( the 4th child in our family) to pay for the medical bills.
He had some fancy fishing rods and fish finders and all that.
In case yall dont know, some of those fine fishing reels are unbeleivably expensive.
Im talking 1,000$ or more, for a bass fishing reel!

right now there is an auction for a HARDY CASCAPEDIA SALMON FLY REEL.
1,500$ !!!!!
 
Everybody has some disposable income, and you're allowed to collect anything you want.

A Red Sox fan I work with has some very expensive baseball cards. Very. It's what floats his particular boat. He & his wife eat out every night too. "We don't cook." I can't afford that.

I can afford kukuris. I'm saving $$$$ just by not drinking beer anymore. Disposable income for khuks n' guns is the best. I've got beaters, safe queens, collectors, a couple one-of-a-kinders and everything in between. I think I'm about done, but am probably kidding myself. You see something like the Yangudu Special and can't resist.

Baseball cards. Beanie Babies. Exotic hand made knives from the roof of the world.

Which one gets your vote? :D


Ad Astra
 
I would like to make something clear about Norm's posts. This is his forum- all of ours. I don't always agree with Norm or anyone else. I've said many controversial things in my life, and on this very forum. I know what it is to have friends misunderstand. Norm is right to be free enough to talk about whatever he needs to here. He took a chance and I will always support that.

Anyway- I think HI is only going to get better than the industry leader it already was.


munk
 
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