HAP40 vs ZDP189 Endura

[Comeuppance]

Both are available in roughly the same configuration (FFG/FRN) and around the same price point at the moment. Which should I get if:

- Corrosion resistance isn't a concern (Marine Tuff Glide is on hand)
- QC is a big concern (previously had an Endura Wave that quickly developed play and centering issues)
- Usage would be abrasive but low-impact cutting (strapping tape, cardboard, plastics)

I'm not so worried about resale value, and I mention that because I know the HAP40 will have the advantage there. Additionally, cosmetic wear is not a concern, as I know the non-laminated ZDP will have the advantage there. I value:

- Fine edge retention
- Ease of edge maintenance (I prefer to strop)
- Finely-grained steels (chippiness is annoying and causes snags in controlled cuts as the day wears on)

I'm leaning towards the HAP40 from a QC standpoint, but if the ZDP is the better option I can deal with a little potential wobbliness.

 

[bearfacedkiller]

Why would the HAP40 be better from a QC standpoint? You would think that they would be more familiar making it in ZDP.

 

[Comeuppance]

Why would the HAP40 be better from a QC standpoint? You would think that they would be more familiar making it in ZDP.

I figure I'm more likely to get the most recent batch of Enduras if I go for the HAP40, which I've seen some reviews stating that the fit and finish is better than some reviewers' previous Enduras. Who knows how old their previous ones were, though...

I'm less concerned about the blade QC (lamination lines, even bevels, etc) as much as I'm concerned about play, centering, and pivot smoothness.

Also, is there any info out there as to the relative average hardnesses Spyderco runs these two steels at?

 

[SpeedHoles]

Seeing how many knives you seem to buy and sell I'm surprised you haven't just bought both and tried them back to back!


I'm going to say ZDP-189 is going to be hard to beat just in edge retention.


So far, I have yet to meet an Endura/Delica that I couldn't sort out centering and side to side play issues on my own. Lock rock is a different story though, if you get one that is cursed with that and can't live with it. I have no up/down play on either of my HAP40 runs, but I have only had them for a week and with very little wear and tear.

 

[nccole]

HAP40 would be my choice. It's way easier to maintain sharpening wise. ZDP-189 has that reputation of being a pain to sharpen and I can agree to a point. My guess is spyderco is running HAP40 64-65RC.

The fit and finish on my HAP40 Endura is the best Japan FRN backlock yet. I think it's just CQI.

I think edge retention is going to be close, but I can tell you HAP40 hold its hair popping edge longer than ZDP in my limited experience. I'm not a huge ZDP. Super Blue rocks too.

 

[Comeuppance]

Seeing how many knives you seem to buy and sell I'm surprised you haven't just bought both and tried them back to back!


I'm going to say ZDP-189 is going to be hard to beat just in edge retention.


So far, I have yet to meet an Endura/Delica that I couldn't sort out centering and side to side play issues on my own. Lock rock is a different story though, if you get one that is cursed with that and can't live with it. I have no up/down play on either of my HAP40 runs, but I have only had them for a week and with very little wear and tear.

Hah, I haven't had time to trade / buy / sell like crazy as of late. Fallout 4 has put a lot of things on the back burner.

Have you used Spyderco ZDP? If so, how would you compare the edge maintenance between that and the HAP40 (if you've had to touch up the HAP40 yet)

 

[Comeuppance]

HAP40 would be my choice. It's way easier to maintain sharpening wise. ZDP-189 has that reputation of being a pain to sharpen and I can agree to a point. My guess is spyderco is running HAP40 64-65RC.

The fit and finish on my HAP40 Endura is the best Japan FRN backlock yet. I think it's just CQI.

I think edge retention is going to be close, but I can tell you HAP40 hold its hair popping edge longer than ZDP in my limited experience. I'm not a huge ZDP. Super Blue rocks too.

Thank you! I'm definitely leaning towards the HAP40 now. I think I might as well add it on to my Amazon gift order list I've been building up. WIHA bit sets for everyone!

 

[jpm2]

I have limited experience with these steels, a few months with a ZDP delica, and about a month with a HAP40 endura, a few days with the HAP delica.
I consider ZDP very good so long as you don't stress the edge too much, although less susceptible to edge damage than most stainless steels, probably due to it's hardness. On the other hand, when it does give way, it's usually a bigger chunk.

HAP40 is definitely tougher than ZDP, and I expect edge retention to be better with my use. For the use you describe, it might be a toss up, we'll have to wait for the rope and cardboard cutting testers to determine that.

I haven't found either one to be significantly harder to do coarse sharpening on diamond or silicon carbide.
For me, HAP gets to a fine edge faster, and responds to stropping better.

For my use, which always includes so-call abuse, it's HAP40 all the way. I'll probably be giving away my 2 ZDP delicas.
Either should be excellent for your use, but give HAP a slight nod.

 

[Comeuppance]

Blammo. Ordered. Now I'm all pumped! This will be my surrogate Rockstead until $2200 falls into my lap and I can justify buying the Sinkevich collab.

I'm considering getting it stonewashed and then acid etched to make the laminate lines more pronounced and to simultaneously make the softer laminate less scratchy-looking. Thoughts?

 

[SpeedHoles]

I have about a half dozen knives in ZDP-189 and I enjoy them all. Sharpening isn't any more difficult with a Sharpmaker with CBN rods, so a lot of that about it being "impossible to sharpen" is nonsense. I will note that I don't really strop my knives, other than occassionally on some cardboard, lol.


You mentioned a Rockstead... well there's a reason they use it as well, it's abrasion resistance is phenomenal.



I can't post an honest full response on HAP40 yet. Other than out of the box fit and finish, and factory edge geometry, which is alllllllll good! Can't go wrong either way, IMO.



Here are some gratuitous pics of the steels in discussion:

 

[TheOutdoorNerd]

The Stretch is going to be pretty sweet in HAP40.