Hard carbon steel

Joined
Feb 13, 2000
Messages
74
I recently acquired an old Saami knife that someone had been sharpening on a bench grinder. This knife is old, guessing late 1800s. Beautiful scrimshaw antler sheath, old blood stains on the bone handle, primitive forge work, real character.

I discovered it had a laminated blade so I started in on restoring the edge to the traditional flat scandi grind on my oil stones. I didn’t want to smear the layer definition so I opted for using my modified norton trihone. No way of knowing what the steel is, but it is harder than anything I have put on my stones before, including so called supersteels. It is harder than Chinese arithmetic. I actually had to use my diamond flattening plate for the roughest work

In the hours I worked on my coarse crystolon, I started to actually develop a slurry. Never seen that before. I worked the slurry as it seemed effective and forgiving for initial stages but when I moved to a finer crystolon, I found I had a slight convex to the grind. Went back and flattened the coarse stone and kept it clean. I checked the apex with a pocket microscope and found smeared scratches on the outside layer and a granular surface on the inner core. Great big crystals in a finer crystal matrix. Looks like raw austenite/martensite with no tempering. Maybe quenched in ice? Looked like the coarse stone tore out some of those “carbides”. I became worried that it might not get sharp. I progressed through the India stone and down to my black Arkansas (yes I use oil on black Arkansas)

Re-check with the microscope showed that the black ark had polished the crystals and left them in place. The black ark also brought out the lamination layers on the bevel. The soft outer layer became much darker than the polished hard layer. The edge passed the freestanding cigarette paper chop. Maybe 6 hours on the stones over 3 days. This is my current favorite knife.

Has anyone seen such hard steel on an old knife? I expect the edge to be brittle...but it has taken an edge equal to my best.

Cutler
 
Wootz Steel? I suppose it’s possible. I’ve never seen Wootz. I thought it was so rare as to be nearly mythical. Is it harder than my ex’s heart?

I saw some pattern welded steel called Wootz, but it wasn’t the secret formula crucible steel imported to Syria from India.
 
Have you thought of wootz ?

Do you mean Roselli Wootz UHC, historical Damascus Wootz steel, or something else?

https://roselli.fi/pages/our-story
And what is his secret? The answer is spelled UHC.

Heimo Roselli’s years of refining forging techniques and studying metals led to a very particular smelting process and work formula - which to this day is a secret kept between Heimo and his men at the Roselli workshop in Harmoinen. The Roselli steel has been independently tested many times, and is internationally recognized as the hardest steel in any modern knife - with the UHC (ultra high carbon) models measuring between 66 and 68 HRC. Unmatched performance, compared to any premium knife brand, anywhere in the world.
 
Who knows, if the knife indeed dates back to the late 1800's it might very well be that a piece of historical wootz steel was used for the core of the blade, for instance from a larger knife or sword.
With a material as prized as quality wootz i would not be surprised if it was reused.

I'm currently busy sharpening an old Talwar sword with a blade that seems to be made from dendritic wootz, a form of this material which does not have any of the nicer looking surface patterns, but it might have comparable mechanical properties.
The edge is also very hard & wear resistant.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/talwar-sword.1627692/

So far i've learned the following:

- wootz and pattern welded steel are different things.
- wootz exists in different qualities.
- the hardness of wootz can vary depending on what it was used for.
For cutting and piercing instruments it was used in a much harder form than when used for more decorative purposes, like in handles for swords and other tools.

Some reading material.
Certain people in modern day Russia are also very interested in the mechanical properties of wootz:

http://damascus.free.fr/f_damas/f_quest/f_wsteel/lounyov.htm
 
If “Wootz” is defined as any hypereutectoid crucible steel, then the possibility gets higher. Kwackster and Mr Wizard have shared that the quest for such materials are, and likely have been for some time, in place in the same part of the world that my knife is almost certainly from.

Any smith is going to use the best possible piece of steel in the core of a billet. Smiths are known for recycling materials and a damaged or dropped fine blade would be dear...and used, but sparingly.

I am a semi-professional sharpener with maybe 300-400 knives in a year mostly on a Tormek. Most of my customers are repeats. I have sharpened a lot of “supersteel” high end knives. I have never before this sharpened a knife that makes a norton crystolon stone wear like a water stone.

This knife deserves a name.
 
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