Hard test results

E

Eric_425

Joined
Sep 21, 2002
Messages
460
So I finished convexing the AK bowie blade... pretty obtuse, looks around 45-60 degrees at the very point, both sides included. Still surprisingly sharp though, slices free hanging paper well.

Hard wood, slamming into the knots of dried maple only caused some slight dulling and very minor impactions that could not be seen, but felt by a fingernail run along the edge. Moved onto harder stuff. Cleaving a copper penny in two brought no further damage that I could detect. A tin can, however caused the last 1/2 mm of the edge to roll. I brought it back into alignment with a steel. This was the area about 2 inches behind the curve. With the last object, 1/8" nail, laid on the table, I hit with the most outward section of the curve. This resulted in a chip of 1mm in depth to be broken off.
Afterwards, I filed off the damaged portion of the edge and brought the blade back to shaving condition. The blade cuts really, really well on wood. As well or better than many hatchets I've had. I'm pretty happy overall. Performed about as expected, cuts wood well, quality handmade blade. This will be my new camp knife. I'm still looking for a super abuse, utility blade though. Maybe I'll try a swamp rat or Busse. What do you guys think?
 
I think you gave a good field report on the AK bowie!

Are you looking for a "super abuse, utility blade" for practical purposes or do you want to test one until it fails? If you want the latter, I think you should check out Cliff Stamp's website first. You'll you get to see many types of blades, including the ones you mention, tested to destruction in a methodical manner and with detailed documentation. Then you can see how good they really are without making the sacrifice yourself.
 
er...at the risk of sounding stuffy...knives ain't made to cut nails or pennies or really, tin cans. I'd say that would be the stuff of waranty invalidation. Maybe they CAN do it, but I'd suspect that is really not why they were made.

There's this thing called a Sawzall. :)
 
If you used it on that stuff and it didn't hurt it any worse than that chopping wood will be a snap.

Those AK bowies when you get them right are like a hatchet. Almost heavier than some hatchets. My only complaint against them is I wish they would do something else with the handles.
 
Kismet said:
er...at the risk of sounding stuffy...knives ain't made to cut nails or pennies or really, tin cans. I'd say that would be the stuff of waranty invalidation. Maybe they CAN do it, but I'd suspect that is really not why they were made.

There's this thing called a Sawzall. :)
Click to expand...

I know. But I don't want to carry a Sawzall and battery pack or something everywhere I go. I want a knife that can be used to cut, or at least, try to cut, anything that needs to be cut without reservation or worrying about damage. I'd made a post earlier about hard testing, and these were some of the ideas I got. I know busse and SW both show demos with their knives performing highly abusive feats, and allow people to go ahead and duplicate them, so that's why I'm thinking of them. They've also got an unconditional lifetime warranty, that I hear they're really good about.

The AK bowie will be used for typical tasks, chopping wood, etc. The SW/busse will be a carry on for cutting anything that needs to be, kind of an emergency blade.
 
FWIW I carry one of two "emergency blades" at work at any given time. They are a HI chiruwa AK and a Becker Crewman. Never tested either one on naile or cinder blocks, but I know they'll work for me when I need them.
 
raghorn said:
FWIW I carry one of two "emergency blades" at work at any given time. They are a HI chiruwa AK and a Becker Crewman. Never tested either one on naile or cinder blocks, but I know they'll work for me when I need them.
Click to expand...

Maybe I said it wrong...just a abusive knife to completely beat on and not worry about. If I forget a can opener on a camping trip, I want to be able to open a can with the knife. If I need to cut wood for a fire, then that too. Cut the way out of a car if necessary. Any sort of job that needs to be done, a knife that can do it, without question. Is there such a knife?
 
The chiruwa AK is the closest I know of to what you're describing. I pitted mine against a concrete block and a few car parts, and the AK came out the winner.
 
Josh Feltman said:
I'm trying to think of how to respond to this, but it's just not coming to me.
Click to expand...

The light dims..... :(

Anyway.....Cliff Stamp is always worth a thorough reading. If you want a destructive device with an edge, Busse/Swamp Rat might be a good bet. They do have two things that the kamis don't - very fine control of material supply and heat treat. If you're looking for a tough piece of metal that's still hard enough to hold an edge, both of these are very important for maximum performance. Rumor has it that INFI came out of a collaboration between Jerry and some metallurgists in the Ohio steel industry (lately on the rocks :( :mad: ). INFI and Busse have an excellent reputation, unspotted by any quality control or performance issues, such as the Mad Dog scandal, or the odd khuk failure. (the only one I'm aware of is a guy who chipped the edge on a Swamp Rat blade chopping bones.) Given that at least a few amateur product testers hang out here and really try to push the limits of an "indestructible" warranty, it may actually be impossible to break a Wauseon creation using just human power. Also, they do seem to have better impact resistance at the very edge. Khuks have some soft areas where you will definitely roll or deform an edge, and some are harder than others at the sweet spot. Jerry is a great guy who makes great knives. If I was in a situation where a knife and it's performance for seconds or minutes would save my life, I'd be packing a Busse.

On the other hand, khuks have much better geometry and ergonomics. Swamp Rat/Busse have fairly standard, straight-blade designs. The biggest refinements are some handle texturing, or the full convex grind on the new Satin Jack. Khuk blades are tapered, fullered, and tweaked in every imagineable way to get an optimized shape in the steel. Keep a good sharpener handy, and it's definitely a blade that you could work with for a long day, and live with for a lifetime. There's also the factor that you could buy several khuks (especially if you shark the DOTD) for the price of a Busse, and another one for the cost of a good sheath.

(Disclosures - I own lots of khuks, one Busse, no Rats. Haven't been able to give the Busse a good workout outside of the kitchen.)
 
Clearly, I'm not going to be chopping nails or concrete on a regular basis. If I needed something just for that, I'd get a hammer/chisel and hacksaw.

To be completely practical, I don't need a HI either. Or any special knife. 95% of the time, a $10 victorinox from walmart will do whatever a knife needs to do in day to day, suburban/urban life. Throw in a hatchet or ax and make that 99%. You'd be a lot more normal too. The neighbors wouldn't give you that funny look anymore if you walked out with a pocket knife rather than a big, curvy khuk. But it's the individual appeal of it, having something different. To hell with practical.

A knife that I couldn't break by human means, I think, is what's appealing to me. A sharpened crowbar. I'll probably sacrifice some fine slicing ability, and a few more notches on the practicality scale. But I'm ok with that. :)
 
I broke a crowbar one time...but it wouldn't slice worth a darn anyway...:(
 
Unfortunately, a search didn't turn up the crow bar khuk thread. Some guy forged a quite respectable-looking khuk-like-object out of a chinese crowbar.
 
I used to be in the same boat as you, Eric. I was always looking for THE indestructable knife that I could bet my life on. I tried any knife i could afford. Cold Steel, Becker, etc. Then I found HI. I know HI isn't a cure all to the indestructable knife thing, but my time here has taught me a lot about being ready for a survival situation. When i go out intot he woods I take an AK bowie or the Pen Knife along with a leatherman and/or SAK. Well big knife dents if i happen to have a missed blow and hit a rock? sure, but i'll be able to sharpen them out on that same rock. My survival skills will run out before that blade does. I'll starve or die from exposure before the typical HI blade lets me down. Same thing goes with the ol' burning-car-flipped-ouver-family-inside thing. I carry an old AK in my truck and have a villager than is going to live in my fiance's car. In that situation I don't care how the blade holds an edge. That knife is going to be use for approximately 45 seconds while i rip the car in half using fear and panic to force my way to my family. As soon as the door is open and the last kid is out of his or her seat I'm dropping that khuk to make sure i get everyone to safety. At that point the khuk can weld to the car's frame for all i care. i can buy another.
IMHO, super steels are great at holding an edge and yes you can count on them when you need them to save your life. However, super steels are usally super hard, super difficult to sharpen, and super $$$. In all honesty, if i were in any emergency situation other than having to smash my way out of something, i'd be more worried about not having my Leatherman or SAK than my big knife, but that's just me.

Jake
 
I agree with you, Steely. I don't know much about steels or knives but I can see how a khukri could be as good or better than any other knife in a real rescure situation. The khuk is going to do whatever anything else can do. It may bend but it probably won't break. The super steels tend to be more brittle, am I right about that? They are fantastic, but maybe on these big knives not necessarily the ticket.
 
Eric?

I apologise if I gave offense. I think I'm intruding where it is none of my business, but I worry that less rational folks may create issues for H.I. down the road. And then I go into pompous protective posture. Maybe it is just a helpless feeling not to be able to repair a situation and looking for ways to alleviate future issues...which really are none of my business.

Please, disregard me.



Be well and safe.
 
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