Hard to Believe this Happens Here...

[SASSAS]

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/latestnews/stories/wfaa051214_lj_african.bb0e76d.html

Woman's death highlights health insurance crisis

12:33 PM CST on Wednesday, December 14, 2005

By JANET ST. JAMES / WFAA-TV

WFAA.
Tirhas Habtegiris was 27 when she died.

A family has gathered to mourn a woman gone too soon.

Tirhas Habtegiris was an East African immigrant and only 27 when she died Monday afternoon.

She'd been on a respirator at Baylor Regional Medical Center at Plano for 25 days.

"They handed me this letter on December 1st. and they said, we're going to give you 10 days so on the 11th day, we're going to pull it out," said her brother Daniel Salvi.

Salvi was stunned to get this hand-delivered notice invoking a complicated and rarely used Texas law where a doctor is "not obligated to continue" medical treatment "medically inappropriate" when care is not beneficial.

Even though her body was being ravaged by cancer, this family says Tirhas still responded and was conscious. She was waiting one person.

"She wanted to get her mom over here or to get to her mom so she could die in her mom's arms," says her cousin Meri Tesfay.

Ten days was not enough time, they say, to get a mother from Africa to America.

The family and hospital desperately tried to get Tirhas moved to a nursing home but they say no one would take her.

"A fund issue is what I understand. Because she is not insured and that was the major reason the way I understood it," Salvi said.

A statement from Baylor Plano disputes that and says the hospital did its best to comply with the family's wishes in every way.

Still, on the 11th day, Tirhas Habtegiris was taken off the respirator and died.

Her family feels caught in America's health insurance crisis.

"And it's kind of a shock to me too to experience this in this country. It's the richest country in the world. Very sad," Salvi said.

Experts say there are very few charity beds for ventilator dependent patients in this state. President George W. Bush has said he wants to expand healthcare for legal immigrants in this country.

 

[fredricktoo]

but they all (neoconartists) ran cross country, overnight to pass a law in Congress affecting one person. Terry Schiavo. wtf?

 

[Dave Rishar]

How would it had been handled in elsewhere?

This treatment costs money. Who should have paid for it?

10 days was not enough time. 25 days was plenty of time. Or am I being insensitive?

My own health care plan has recently gone from, "We'll fix anything," to, "Don't get sick." If I ever end up on a respirator, I hope that I have 25 days.

 

[DannyinJapan]

plano hospital is 1.5 miles from my house.
wow, how small the world can be.
plano is also one of the most expensive cities on Earth.
A bad place for an uninsured immigrant to die slowly in a hospital...

 

[jmings]

<snip>
A bad place for an uninsured immigrant to die slowly in a hospital...

AFAIK in Japan the patient's family is expected to provide the in-hospital nursing care.

 

[munk]

What do you think they should have done if the Mother could have made it in 18 days?

It's not a happy story. I am not unsensitive to this. But I want to point this out; after there is 'universal health care' to everyone here in the US, it is only a matter of time before that isn't fair, and everyone on Earth deserves health care.

To pay for these things often has consequences you may not like. How about lousy health care, real high taxes, and it still not being fair?

How about a one world Government to pay for universal health care for everyone on the planet?

And when that's done, the plug is pulled on day 11 instead of 10, and the Mother still couldn't get there in time.

I don't know what the answer is. I do know that if millions of illegal aliens weren't pouring over the US border and recieving free
'emergency' care, we might have more money to deal with this kind of thing.

Maybe we'd have more money if we stopped the war on drugs, too, and emptied our prison space.

munk

 

[Grob]

I'm a huge fan of universal health care payed for by the government. Helathcare should be a right not a privilage of thoes who can afford it.

 

[namaarie]

A national healthcare system has many problems. I could not support it. The best-qualified would no longer be doctors. There simply wouldn't be the income to attract them. Furthermore, we'd probably adopt a system somewhat like Canada or some European nations, in which people would have to wait a long time for procedures. Yvsa's "quality of life" surgery might not have happened, at least not yet. Hip replacements? Get in line.

And that's not to mention taxes. In order to fund such a thing, (not to mention having any hope of eventually paying off the federal deficit) our government would have to raise taxes to an astronomical level. And for what? An inefficient, bureaucratic system that would waste funds in a manner that would make a competitive health insurance firm ill. With such waste, funded by peoples' taxes, do you really think America would spend less for its health care?

There should be a system, I agree, but not universal. Children born impoverished do not deserve poor healthcare because of their parents' situation. But too far beyond that and you get into a welfare-like disincentive system that will not benefit society, will erode the quality of care that people can receive, and will severely harm our economy.

I can't see how this system would be feasible, practical, or desirable.

Chris

 

[sams]

I always thought children and old people should have free health care.

 

[Svashtar]

I'm a huge fan of universal health care payed for by the government. Helathcare should be a right not a privilage of thoes who can afford it.

Paid for by the Government? Who pays the Government? Do income taxes ring a bell?

Geez you would think people would have figured out by now after almost Six TRILLION in entitlement programs that the Government pays for _nothing._ We are the Government. TANSTAAFL.

Universal healthcare is one of those great sounding ideas, like Communism, that doesn't seem to work too well in reality. Socialist Governments thrive on such ideas.

The fact is poor people are treated for free in emergency rooms all throughout the US, and we pay for that already.

There is a reason thousands of Canadians and Britons are fleeing their socialized lowest-common-denominator medical options and coming to the US and other countries for their medical care. They would prefer not to pay for their "Free" Government health care with their lives.

Norm

 

[Grob]

I have no objections to a two teir system, if you want to pay to get elective surgeries faster, good for you. But no one should be deprived of basic medical care like anual check ups and nessisiary surgeries. As for making it impossible to keep good doctors i would think that the $100,000+ yearly in malpractice insurance that doctors must pay in some states cant be too good for that either. The cross border health care issue is interesting, rich canadians go south to pay for elective surgeries while poor americans go north so they can afford medicine that is cheaper even for non citizens hear then it is for citizens in the states. Here is another potential troll... I also support free post secondary education.

 

[Fiddleback]

Our govt can't run the post office efficiently. Would you trust it to run our healthcare system. I'm just going to be insensitive here and say, sorry, there has to be a limit. It's not unethical to put a limit on how much we will give a NON CITIZEN for free. The Earth is not a utopia. It may never be. I don't care. Take care of and responsiblility for YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Grob]

Sorry I was a little unclear in my last post. I was refering to canadian medicare providing medicine for thoes who are not canadian citizens cheaper than american citizens could buy them at home. While the canadian health care system has its share of flaws (which I will be the first to admit) they mostly result from an over developed beurocracy and not from the concept of universal health care. The Canadian economy supports the health care system without serious negative effect nor is income tax painfully high.

 

[munk]

Welcome to HI forum, Grob.

> While the canadian health care system has its share of flaws (which I will be the first to admit) they mostly result from an over developed beurocracy and not from the concept of universal health care.>>>>> Grob

How so? The concept of universal health care always results in a over developed bureacracy. You've eliminated competition.

The Canadian economy supports the health care system without serious negative effect nor is income tax painfully high.>>>>>>

Where did this come from? Do you know how much a gallon/liter of gasoline costs in Canada and why? Taxes. I don't think a year has gone by since the program started that I haven't read at least one news account of the negative economic impact of it.


munk

 

[bigjim]

I have no objections to a two teir system, if you want to pay to get elective surgeries faster, good for you. But no one should be deprived of basic medical care like anual check ups and nessisiary surgeries. As for making it impossible to keep good doctors i would think that the $100,000+ yearly in malpractice insurance that doctors must pay in some states cant be too good for that either. The cross border health care issue is interesting, rich canadians go south to pay for elective surgeries while poor americans go north so they can afford medicine that is cheaper even for non citizens hear then it is for citizens in the states. Here is another potential troll... I also support free post secondary education.

I don't care what you support as long as you don't hold a gun to my head and force me to support it as well.

I support all you do-gooders staying the hell out of my pocket.

 

[Fiddleback]

AAMMEENN Bigjim!

 

[munk]

A Doctor came to our little town for a vacation. While here, she told me about working in Canada. She was paid very little. Good Doctors won't stay at that- they flee to America and work. She was very depressed. She wanted more money too.



munk

 

[SASSAS]

How would it had been handled in elsewhere?

This treatment costs money. Who should have paid for it?

10 days was not enough time. 25 days was plenty of time. Or am I being insensitive?

My own health care plan has recently gone from, "We'll fix anything," to, "Don't get sick." If I ever end up on a respirator, I hope that I have 25 days.

As a veteran, you have a right to lifetime healthcare through the VA. You just need to register. Didn't they tell you about this when you outprocessed? We had a sit down with a VA counselor where they gave the paperwork we would need to make any disability claims and to make sure that any service-related injuries were noted. You're eligible for disabilities such as 0% disabilities for injuries that while not immediately inhibiting, can have long-term effects. As I recall, these count as disability points when applying for civil service jobs (possibly a 10 point rather than 5 point bonus). Regardless, any active duty veteran discharged under other than dishonorable conditions is eligible... You've earned a lot of benefits with your service. Don't let them go to waste.

http://www.va.gov/healtheligibility/home/hecmain.asp

 

[Thomas Linton]

I'm a huge fan of universal health care payed for by the government. Helathcare should be a right not a privilage of thoes who can afford it.

Be clear that you are saying that someone has a "right" to the money you earn. OPM.

We have universal education to ages 5-19.

Surely universal housing, food, clothing, and utilities is more important than universal health care. We used to have that.

 

[SASSAS]

When I started this thread, I never expected it to go in this direction. To my knowledge, this law is unique to Texas in the U.S. I've never heard of it in reference to anywhere else. I'm too lazy to do research on a Friday evening, so feel free to correct me if you know of another place in the U.S.

It seems somewhat odd to me that as a forum, we're proud of the fact that some of the money we spend in HI goes to improve the quality of the kamis lives, and that that their lack of access to health care is frequently cited as an example of how bad things are in Nepal and their problems with caste, yet the idea of access to health care to all in the U.S. isn't considered a good thing to everyone.

What would you think about an idea such as this... Provide merit based scholarships to medical school with the recipients being required to work in a low-income clinic for 6 years, but leaving after that time having completed their residency and with no debt for school. We provide grants and scholarships now that are taxpayer funded in which people leave with no obligation whatsoever, some having received taxpayer paid schooling and some having large student loan debts.

This serves two purposes... One, it makes sure that more qualified students have the opportunity to become doctors and can thus compete with less qualified candidates who have someone to pay their way. Two, it provides a pool of doctors that work for less money for a period of time.

It's only fair when discussing the health care costs to bring up the AMA. The teamsters have nothing on the AMA when it comes to inhibiting competition.

e.g. Anyone can learn to diagnose and treat dehydration with an IV in combat lifesaver training in the Army. This training has been proven to save lives and takes a couple hours. I was given a bag that had two bags of lactating ringers (a rehydration solution) in a medical kit that unlike almost anything else in the Army went with me when I went from place to place. As a civillian, you need a prescription from a physician to buy lactating ringers. Actually, you need a prescription from a physician to get water suitable for injection...water in a plastic bag.

I pay a big chunk of my income in taxes. No wife, no kids, not rich, ergo no tax breaks except for the $300 sham that went to various opposition candidates during the last few elections. The fact that I pay more in taxes than a man with the same income because they are married or have children seems quite unfair to me. Personally, since I'm paying the money, I think it should be going to provide health care for a poor person (immigrant or not) rather than as a tax break/credit so a middle-class suburbanite can get an Expedition instead of an Explorer to cart her kids two miles through town from the plan (AKA yuppie projects) to the soccer field.

I'm as big a fan of yuppie American soccer as Munk is of the French. European soccer however, with rioting English hooligans and drunk orange-painted Dutchmen, is awesome.though... :thumbup: