Hardened anvil vs unhardened

I

Ian Fifelski

Joined
Oct 4, 2017
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What is the performance difference between the two? It is very noticeable for forging speed? Or mainly just for keeping the face flat and undented?

I am asking because I have been doing a bunch more forging and after watching some videos it seems metal is moving very slow for me. I am trying to use the method of elimination to figure out the problem. I have an unhardened steel block 3 1/2 square by about 15 inches from a scrap bin at greiner industries out here. I set it flat into a steel tub with about 100 pounds of cement. Then its set on a stable bench I built a while back and set on the dirt floor of my shop. And I am using a 3 pound hammer.
What the heck, I can just show a picture.:p

dscn6050_orig.jpg
dscn6051_orig.jpg

After seeing a bunch of post anvils, am I forging slow because the block is set flat?
Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks
 
Quite a noticable difference in hardened vs unhardened steel anvil, but not eye watering. I can't see the pics on this comp (at work), but the difference b/t a mild and hardened steel anvil is nowhere near the diff b/t hardened steel and cast iron.

I have a mild steel striking anvil and steel still moves on it quite nicely. Not sufficiently nicely to make me use it when I don't have a striker.

My guess if I understand your description properly is that you have it set such that you only have 3.5" of backing behind the blow. If you were to flip the block so that you had 15", I suspect you would get better results.
 
Here is a wierd idea. Could he hard face the anvil? I have talked with a blacksmith who does anvil repairs and they work. With runoff tabs and a flat surface it should be possible to do at least 1 /4" of hard buildup if he has access to a welder.
 
I'm not a forger, but one thing I see is that there appears to be no support directly under your anvil. The bench you have it on is probably flexing.
 
While a hardened anvil is easier to use, any heavy mass will work. The biggest thing is to have the steel at the proper heat. Most folks try to forge far too cold. It should be orange color to yellow orange ( 2000-2100F) when you pull it out and start forging. Once it drops to cherry red, put it back in the forge. Forging until it is dull red or dark is wasted time and may damage the blade.
 
skillgannon said:
Here is a wierd idea. Could he hard face the anvil? I have talked with a blacksmith who does anvil repairs and they work. With runoff tabs and a flat surface it should be possible to do at least 1 /4" of hard buildup if he has access to a welder.
Click to expand...
Hardfacing filler tends to run in the neighborhood of $20 a LB, so it would very likely not be cost effective. Be cheaper to weld on an appropriate plate of 4140 and HT afterword.
 
Dont forget the fuel to weld a pile of rod on, then grinding it smooth again...
Depends on ones rates plan, it can add real expense.
Anyway, appears laying flat is main detriment to effectiveness. On makeshift anvils of plates & such, One should strive for as much mass under hammer blow as practical. Not extending much beyond the striking area.
joedhiggins said:
Hardfacing filler tends to run in the neighborhood of $20 a LB, so it would very likely not be cost effective. Be cheaper to weld on an appropriate plate of 4140 and HT afterword.
Click to expand...
 
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
not agian.

Your problem is not your mild steel anvil. I would really work on hammer control and isolating smaller areas using the edge of your block. Vary rarely do you use the entire face of the hammer in contact with the steel. With out going into a big thing I will say if a mild steel anvil is affecting your forging speed then your steel is WAY to cold. What matters is mass and that mass needs to have a higher yeald strength then the hot steel your forging. I’m of the belief that rebound means just about nothing when it comes to forging hot steel efficiency. But you could have a problem with the base of your wash tub. How solid is it?

I just looked at your picture agian. Please tell me your not forging on that wood bench. If you are then that’s a huge issue when it comes to sucking energy out of your blows. I see forge scale on the bench so I’m hoping I’m wrong but it would be an easy fix.
 
Yeah, so I just saw the pictures. First, I would set the block vertically, maximixing mass under each blow. Second, I don't love concrete as a base for an anvil as the longer you work it, the less solid your contact will be. Finally, don't forge on a bench.

Forging hot is obviously important as well. ANd it is critical to learn hamemr control, but this setup is gonna significantly reduce the effectiveness of your blows.
 
I forge on a railroad track nailed to a heavy stump. At first I thought it was why I forged slow but I realized it was temperature. Get the steel HOT. I actually love my little track now, the 2" wide face I thought would be a problem has become a very comfortable work surface.
 
JTknives said:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
not agian.

Your problem is not your mild steel anvil. I would really work on hammer control and isolating smaller areas using the edge of your block. Vary rarely do you use the entire face of the hammer in contact with the steel. With out going into a big thing I will say if a mild steel anvil is affecting your forging speed then your steel is WAY to cold. What matters is mass and that mass needs to have a higher yeald strength then the hot steel your forging. I’m of the belief that rebound means just about nothing when it comes to forging hot steel efficiency. But you could have a problem with the base of your wash tub. How solid is it?

I just looked at your picture agian. Please tell me your not forging on that wood bench. If you are then that’s a huge issue when it comes to sucking energy out of your blows. I see forge scale on the bench so I’m hoping I’m wrong but it would be an easy fix.
Click to expand...
Yes I am forging on the bench... uh oh :D
I assume I want a solid base rather than legs? That is temporary as I was hoping to find a stump, but haven't gotten one yet.
 
I am sure I am forging hot enough, in fact I keep on burning my steel accidentally.

Also I had a rail track anvil and I liked it for drawing out but the face was too small for my liking. I still have It and I use it occasionally.
 
Wood is fine as long as it’s solid. Your bench can flex and absorb each blow. Lots of people stack and bolt wood for an anvil base. If done right it’s a perfectly usable base.
 
I screw and glue up stacks of 2X4s to make anvil bases. I leave boards sticking out about 18" on each side of the next to the last layer as lifting handles and hammer racks.
 
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