Hardening question

[David Stifle]

Hi All,

Can anyone tell me what you use to waterprofe and harden leather? Thanks mucho!

 

[Diomedes Industries]

I use Montana Pitch Blend - gives it a lot of water protection - and slightly stiffens the leather.

However, nothing really hardens leather - and if it does - it usually isn't good.

I know dipping it in melted bees wax will do both of these - but - it feels like kydex after this - and takes a bit of expertise.

TF

 

[parbajtor]

I use resolene, liberally. But wait until the dye has fully dried (if spirit/oil based)

 

[rayban]

Hi All,

Can anyone tell me what you use to waterprofe and harden leather? Thanks mucho!

I don't do this but I watched a fellow sheath maker do it....he had a crock-pot full of melted bees wax...dipped the sheath into it...lifted it out and let the access drip off......let cure.
The result is hard as a rock sheath and waterproof.

 

[snowsnake]

I can see the advantage of waterproofing a sheath, but what is the benefit of a hardened sheath?

 

[rayban]

I can see the advantage of waterproofing a sheath, but what is the benefit of a hardened sheath?

A hardened sheath will take bumps and scrapes better than a soft one...I would think....makes sense to me anyway.

 

[Diomedes Industries]

JK - the knifemaker on here - dips his sheaths. As well as NWA.

TF

 

[David Stifle]

Well, I probably did a no-no, but I rubbed it down with spar varnish. Just a thin coat, let dry, folllowed by one more very light coat. Came out of the process waterproof, nice satin shine, and quite hard. I'll post some pictures soon.

Thanks for the replies, appreciate the tip on bees wax.

 

[Wild Rose]

However, nothing really hardens leather - and if it does - it usually isn't good.

I know dipping it in melted bees wax will do both of these - but - it feels like kydex after this - and takes a bit of expertise.

TF

actually there is a method for hardening leather that goes back to the dawn of time - it's known as cuir bouilli aka boiled leather albeit the leather is generally not actually boiled. It's a simple process of using heat to harden water dampened leather - done right you actually change the leather at the molecular level when the leather is heated to 160° F although the leather will harden and stay hard at temps between 140-160° - it's the method used for hard leather cases, sword, knife, and bayonet sheaths, trunk corners, etc.
One of the best explanations of the cuir bouilli method is here:
http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/leather/hl.html

The hot wax method hardens leather via the heat - the wax is not necessary to harden the leather and by using water instead you prevent all the inherent problems with using hot wax which in my experience is unnecessary and since the heat is much hotter than the 140-160° when using wax it can cause problems.


when I harden using the cb method I case the leather as I would for carving/tooling then dry in a food dehydrator at 150-160° F - a simple box with a 75 watt bulb or small hot tray, a way to let heat escape to regulate temp, and a thermometer can be also be used although it takes some watching so it doesn't overheat, whereas a temp controlled dehydrator (lots of home built plans available on line) allows you to put it to dry and go do other things.

as for waterproofing leather - there is no 100 effective, long term method that does not change the leather to an almost plasticized state and thus changes the character of the leather itself. In the old days patent leather was developed using linseed oil based varnishes but even then it was not foolproof and the leather looked highly polished. On the other hand one can use modern products such as various wood finishes including varathane or water sealers that will effectively water proof the leather and prevent rot and deterioration - I did this for some years when I made tactical goods and before there was kydex, especially for guys serving in wet environments such as the jungles of SE Asia and Central America and the rain forests of the Pacific Northwest area. Again while the method successfully prevented deterioration it no longer had the warmth and character of leather, but in this case that wasn't as important as having a sheath that would last. I did this type waterproofing only on hardened leather which in itself helps make leather water resistant.

 

[leatherman]

Plasticizing, yea, a friend of mine in the leather armor making business did just that for most of the hard impact areas with epoxy. He would thin the epoxy out and soak the leather piece in its formed state. This involves wet forming first then thoroughly drying (this is VERY important).

He would then soak the piece in the thinned epoxy till it stopped bubbling, this takes just a couple of minutes. Remove and hang over a place where expoxy wont harm where it drips.

The result might as well be kydex, but if he carved figures into the leather first it was well worth the effort. The result is a piece of carved leather that is hard as a rock, wont crack easily, and is very sweat resistant. Critical is the sweat resistance, leather does not like salt.

 

[Diomedes Industries]

...and I stand corrected.

Thanks for taking the time Chuck to type that up. I learned a TON.

TF

 

[David Stifle]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for replying to my post. I've been making knives for around ten years, strictly as a hobby, a serious one though. Lately I've started making sword-like stuff, and of course, scabbords to go with them. This is my largest leather scabbord to date, with a two foot lenght. Oh, and the runes were put in with a soldering iron.
It's been waterproffed, to the best of my ability, with 2 light coats of spar varnish, and then spit shined with shoe polish. The sheath is meant to carry the sword baldric syle, thus I attached rings to take chain attachment points. Please let me know if you need better pictures of the sheath. These are all I have at the moment, but I can take more. I also added an attachment point at the tip of the sheath. I am quite proud of it, even though I know its not perfect. I am interested in what you guys think, so please feel free to chime right in.