has anyone else made my mistake?

R

rook9

Joined
Nov 19, 2012
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I searched and didn't find this subject posted anywhere else in the forum, so...
I call this "the Great Faux Pas of 2011".
It was the last few hours of the last day of a gun show and I didn't have time to research it.
I knew it wasn't vintage but I took a chance that it was better than what it turned out to be.
Little did I know it was Camillus. I have a few Camillus knives and this one is substandard.
It took forever to get a decent edge on it and it doesn't hold that edge too well.
At times I will carry it just in case someone says "can I use your knife"?
Please tell me I'm not alone in this...
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I can honestly say that I have never made that mistake. I have however made my own.

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Hey Rook9, is the back side of that knife stamped 881 or maybe 881Y?
 
thawk said:
Hey Rook9, is the back side of that knife stamped 881 or maybe 881Y?
Click to expand...

nah...full blown Camillus. Found out some time after I bought it. here's some more pics.
I figured someone here would know about this. It took a bit of research to find out about it.
Camillus made these after Schrade closed. I was hoping it was something Schrade made just
before shutting their doors.
I have seen some trappers also. Beware on ebay, I've seen some in vintage looking tubes with papers but the
model numbers don't click.
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back of clip blade
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better shot of the shield
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with Schrade Walden on the tang wouldn't that put it pre 1973? not sure about these. i have a Heritage H296 which only has Schrade on tang.
 

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delmas2nd said:
with Schrade Walden on the tang wouldn't that put it pre 1973? not sure about these. i have a Heritage H296 which only has Schrade on tang.
Click to expand...

Not with the 100 Year Anniversary etch. 2004 was the 100th year. It is a "revival" stamping. There are some 100 year examples that are SCHRADE USA made in Ellenville, and some that were done by TAYLOR. There are also a bunch of them partially made, and there were tons of parts left over of knives that were not completed at the time of bankruptcy.
 
delmas2nd said:
with Schrade Walden on the tang wouldn't that put it pre 1973? not sure about these. i have a Heritage H296 which only has Schrade on tang.
Click to expand...

That stamp is a trademark, and ceased to be anything more than that anytime after 1958, when Schrade moved to Ellenville. Schrade stopped using it for many years after 1973, then began to use it again for a few issues before they closed their doors in 2004. After 2004, Taylor has used it indiscriminately on knives from (first) Camillus, then Bear and Utica, and, of course, on Chinese knives. The post 2004 yellow Camillus knives were the stockman, a trapper, and a muskrat with one blade being spey. Before the 2004 closing, Camillus made many knives with Schrade stamps, because it was an owner-related company with Schrade. Camillus stockman knives with Schrade stamps do not have the Swinden pin assembly at the bolsters; they have traditional pins. This is true for pre-and post-2004 Camillus made "Schrade" knives. The Chinese "Schrade Waldens" hopefully don't have U.S.A. in the stamp.
 
The 881Y I am showing there is not one I owned or own, but the tube is suspect for sure. I did not think though, that the Taylor, made by Camillus knives had a valid Schrade number on the back tang. Nor did I think they used that font used on the SCHRADE engraved shield. I believe Camillus made examples used an oval shield with the other sans serif font.
 
I think the Camillus/Taylor stockman came the tubes with a label on them SWA881Y, but as Hal mentioned were not stamped on the rear of the main blade. I do have a copy of the stockman with the 100 year etch, which does have unanswered questions about it.

Russell
 
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I'm holding a post 2004 <Mint..what a laugh!> Camillus/Bear/Utica/ <and anyone else who lined up and paid their money for the nostalgia stamping?> made under Licence by ""Taylor"" clone,identical to Rooks'..the fastest way to differentiate is the handle pins..Rooks' like mine, are flush with the handle..shiny little things..unlike the "genuine"...there is no number on pile side master clip identical to Rooks' and the tube paperwork has SWA880Y on the end flap..Made in U.S.A. shown proudly on the outside of the box...and of course you had to buy the 'thing' to find out written inside in small print..'Used under Licence from Taylor Cutlery, LLC.' This knife has a lousy rather blunt edge to start with..<shaving sharp??..I dont reckon you could even scrape the shaving cream off with it..in fact 'Everlastingly Blunt' should have been inscribed on master clip blade> and I wouldn't fancy trying to put a sharp edge on it..the handle is more angular/boxy than the real knives and quite uncomfortable in the hand..my other Genuine Walden and Ellenville knives know he's an imposter.. and they wont even talk to it....a sham and a shame of a knife.....<just note the handle pins and you shouldn't get caught providing the seller doesnt smear his lens with petroleum jelly>.....Hoo Roo
P.S. even though ""Taylor"" states on the inside paperwork "The Ellenville.N.Y. factory closed in 2004 and the Production of these knives was moved to Camillus, New York"..my example does not feel like a Camillus made...who would ever really know with Taylor..?
 
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I have been collecting Schrade knives for many years and I have quite a number of early 881s.
The only knife I have used since the day I found it in a gun shop in 1973, is a Walden 881.
All of the Walden knives in my collection do not have Schrade stamped on the shield.
The 881 knives stamped &#8220;Schrade NY&#8221; do have Schrade stamped on the shield.
I do not believe Schrade ever stamped an 881 or an 8OT with a &#8220;Y&#8221;.
Thawk's Yellow knife looks the same as my late 8OT Yellow knives - only his knife could have a later Camillus blade.
At the time Schrade closed down, they were mainly using the &#8220;2004 -100th Anniversary&#8221; etch &#8211;
As used on the "Blue Rope Bone ACB8OT" that Schrade had in the pipe-line for a late 2004 release.
That 100 year etch looks like some-thing that came after 2004 and Taylor Brands is still using some other Anniversary etches.

As for the "Walden" or any other trade mark that was sold at the Schrade Sale in 2004, Mr Taylor can and has used it since 2005.
The pin assembly is clearly showing on the Camillus knife. Schrade only ues the "Swinden System" with the pins under the bolsters.
 
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Although Schrade is the only company that used the Swinden system, they did NOT use it on all their knives.
Btw, I have two Schrade yellow Delrin stockman knives. One is stamped on the mark side SCHRADE/WALDEN/NY USA., and 881Y on the pile side. The other one is stamped SCHRADE/NY USA/881Y on the mark side. They are both absolutely authentic pre-1990s Schrades.
 
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koldgold said:
I have been collecting Schrade knives for many years and I have quite a number of early 881s.
The only knife I have used since the day I found it in a gun shop in 1973, is a Walden 881.
All of the Walden knives in my collection do not have Schrade stamped on the shield.
The 881 knives stamped &#8220;Schrade NY&#8221; do have Schrade stamped on the shield.
I do not believe Schrade ever stamped an 881 or an 8OT with a &#8220;Y&#8221;.
Thawk's Yellow knife looks the same as my late 8OT Yellow knives - only his knife could have a later Camillus blade.
At the time Schrade closed down, they were mainly using the &#8220;2004 -100th Anniversary&#8221; etch &#8211;
As used on the "Blue Rope Bone ACB8OT" that Schrade had in the pipe-line for a late 2004 release.
That 100 year etch looks like some-thing that came after 2004 and Taylor Brands is still using some other Anniversary etches.

As for the "Walden" or any other trade mark that was sold at the Schrade Sale in 2004, Mr Taylor can and has used it since 2005.
The pin assembly is clearly showing on the Camillus knife. Schrade only ues the "Swinden System" with the pins under the bolsters.
Click to expand...

Although SCHRADE WALDEN engraved shields are more common, there are Schrade Walden stamped knives with a SCHRADE engraved shields. They were from the 1973 time frame. I've seen 861's, 804's, and 881's with the SCHRADE only engraving. I have pictures of a SCHRADE NY 881Y with an 881Y stamp. I found a SCHRADE WALDEN 881Y with the 881Y stamp on the backside for sale on Ebay. It is a pre 1973 with a matchstrike nick on the front. I thought at least most of the 881Y knives made by Schrade Walden or Schrade were marked 881Y.

881Y_NY-1.jpg


881Y_b.jpg


I don't have the one I used earlier as an example, and still do not know if it is pre or post 2004. :confused:
 
thawk said:
Although SCHRADE WALDEN engraved shields are more common, there are Schrade Walden stamped knives with a SCHRADE engraved shields. They were from the 1973 time frame. I've seen 861's, 804's, and 881's with the SCHRADE only engraving. I have pictures of a SCHRADE NY 881Y with an 881Y stamp. I found a SCHRADE WALDEN 881Y with the 881Y stamp on the backside for sale on Ebay. It is a pre 1973 with a matchstrike nick on the front. I thought at least most of the 881Y knives made by Schrade Walden or Schrade were marked 881Y.

thawk,
I have never seen a Yellow knife with the blade stamped with a "Y". However, I have just opened a pack of six 881Y;
all unopend in tubes that I had put away, many years ago.
All of these 881Y are clearly stamped "881Y" on the back of the main blade. They are also all match-strike pulls.
I also opened a pack of six match-strike 881 knives in unopened tubes. All 12 knives have the blank shiled.
Some-one once said; Schrade made good knives - However, they did not keep good file history on the knives they made.

I have just looked at Schrade&#8217;s catalogues.
The 881 is not listed in the 1963 catalouge and first appears in the 1964 catalogue.
The first time the oval shield is showing on any knife, is in the 1973 catalogue with the &#8220;832,834 and 834Y the only knives using that ovel shield.
Click to expand...
 
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koldgold said:
I have just looked at Schrade&#8217;s catalogues.
The 881 is not listed in the 1963 catalouge and first appears in the 1964 catalogue.
The first time the oval shield is showing on any knife, is in the 1973 catalogue with the &#8220;832,834 and 834Y the only knives using that ovel shield.
Click to expand...

The earliest Schrade Walden pricelist I see the 881Y offered is 1954. These were the yellow handles that were probably celluloid, and were somewhat translucent. The catalogs were not complete with all of the patterns they offered. The price lists contained a more complete list, but I agree record keeping with Schrade was not always accurate. The oval shield was used on many knives as early as 1926. Senators and junior cattle knives were a couple that were made with an oval. Add the 835Y from the 1973 time frame as well. I don't think they used the oval on the larger stockman, at least not with the pre 1973 issues.
 
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Thank you Hal for all that information, I did not think to look at the price lists. The oldest Schrade I have, is a stockman with a 1969 etch.
I have all of the Buck 301 knives Schrade made back in 1965. Most of my collection is 1970,1980, 1990. I then put all my time into the 2000-2004 knives and tools.
As most collectors, I have knives put away that I have nevr seen - still in unopend boxes.

Hal, could you tell me when the the "Everlasting Sharp Set" was made. I do not have any infomation on that set... Ken
 
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A trademark used originally on SCHRADE CUTLERY CO retail boxes (six to a box), other packaging items like the Schrade Walden View Pack plastic tubes, display cases, and on a few selected Cut Co knives. They continued to bring it out on a few Schrade Walden USA knives, notably the 804 split spring whittler pattern. It was revived for the smooth bone Heritage Series in 1983 through 1986 and again on the Old timer Classics in 2000. Taylor continues to use this old nostalgic trademark to this day.

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