Have to heat tang before peening?

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Karl der Grosse

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Hi guys, I am making a Viking-style sword and am getting ready to peen the tang to hold together the pommel, stacked leather handle and cross guard. The blade and tang are made from a long chain saw bar. I'm wondering: Do I need to heat the tang red hot with a torch in order to peen it? Or can I cold hammer it with a ball peen hammer and make it mushroom?

This is my first post. I've worked hard on this blade and I don't want to muck it up. I'd appreciate your thoughts.
 
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Keeping in mind my sword knowledge is filed away from about 20 years ago, and viking era technology alone is based on spotty references and finds:
Traditionally, viking swords have the pommel riveted to the tang. They are usually some layered sort of fitting with iron sandwiched by other materials. The tang sometimes does, and sometimes doesn't pass all the way through the pommel. At least this is how it was traditionally done. Later English swords have the tang and guard, pommel, and tang hot fit together with the tang peened while still red hot. The whole affair was then wrapped for a handle. I assume this was for speed of production as much as anything else. I have seen viking style swords done with the later English style pommel and tang fitment... Vikings were required to own swords, and carried them at all times. They were a sign of status, and as such were richly adorned, well made, and certainly not produced with speed of finish in mind. Hence they will use fine materials, laminations, and adornments.

Have any pics of what you are working on? I did some heavy weapons fighting as a martial art form in college. A lot of fun. We played with traditional swords from various parts of the world and the viking swords were very nice. They feature a rather light feel, and have a heavy pommel to balance the whole affair.

Cheers!

-Eric
 
Since you have no idea what the metal is, it is hard to give advice...but:
The tang end should be annealed first. If you have some scraps of the metal you used, test it first. Grind a piece or two like the tang end and heat one red hot ( just barely red) Try and keep it at that dull red for a minute or so and then let it cool until it is dark. Quench in water. Try filing it - if it is soft and the file cuts well, try peening it. If it peens well, do the same for the tang on the sword before assembling the handle and then after it is annealed, put on the washers and pommel and peen tight.
If it is hard after the annealing attempt you are better off to just try and peen it as is. Practice on one of the trial pieces and once you are confident it will peen cold, do the handle. If it is too hard to peen no matter what, either put a pin through the pommel and tang, or use JB weld to assemble the pommel. Even with peening, the JB Weld is a good idea.
 
I have photos to share but I guess I need to get them up online somewhere first and then share the link - is that right?

I'm copying Petersen type K swords such as C11014 in the Universitetets Oldsaksamling in Oslo and J1 in the Musée de l'Armée in Paris which are apparently really Frankish or Carolingian swords traded or later taken by Viking raiders. You're right, Eric, they often had a lower cross guard and then an upper guard which the pommel was riveted to, but later started to have one solid pommel (retaining a horizontal groove indicating the previous separation between pommel and upper guard like the earlier migration period swords) which the tang went all the way through before being peened (like Albion Swords Rollo).

As far as what type of steel it is, I'm no expert but it's a chain saw bar so what would that make it - high carbon tool steel? I made a long two-handed knight's style sword many years ago out of another one and it's held up well to the rigors of leaning in the corner of my closet.

I'll work on getting some pictures on here.

I'll try annealing a scrap from the left over piece (I had a guy cut out the blank with a plasma torch and then did stock removal with a bench grinder). Thanks for the great instructions on annealing. I'll give 'er a go.

Thanks for your ideas.
 
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Sounds like a cool design. I'm of norse and Scottish heritage so I love this stuff. Awesome project.

Some chainsaw bars are high carbon, but a lot are just mild steel unfortunately. Do you know the brand and can hence maybe contact the manufacturer?

Good luck!
-Eric
 
Karl der Grosse said:
I have photos to share but I guess I need to get them up online somewhere first and then share the link - is that right?

I'm copying Petersen type K swords such as C11014 in the Universitetets Oldsaksamling in Oslo and J1 in the Musée de l'Armée in Paris which are apparently really Frankish or Carolingian swords traded or later taken by Viking raiders. You're right, Eric, they often had a lower cross guard and then an upper guard which the pommel was riveted to, but later started to have one solid pommel (retaining a horizontal groove indicating the previous separation between pommel and upper guard like the earlier migration period swords) which the tang went all the way through before being peened (like Albion Swords Rollo).

As far as what type of steel it is, I'm no expert but it's a chain saw bar so what would that make it - high carbon tool steel? I made a long two-handed knight's style sword many years ago out of another one and it's held up well to the rigors of leaning in the corner of my closet.

I'll work on getting some pictures on here.

I'll try annealing a scrap from the left over piece (I had a guy cut out the blank with a plasma torch and then did stock removal with a bench grinder). Thanks for the great instructions on annealing. I'll give 'er a go.

Thanks for your ideas.
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Did you harden the sword, or just use it as is?

Most chain saw bars are high alloy ( usually chromium) and low carbon steel. IIRC, Sthil uses 5220. It is not a hardenable knife/sword steel.
 
bladsmth said:
Since you have no idea what the metal is, it is hard to give advice...but:
The tang end should be annealed first. If you have some scraps of the metal you used, test it first. Grind a piece or two like the tang end and heat one red hot ( just barely red) Try and keep it at that dull red for a minute or so and then let it cool until it is dark. Quench in water. Try filing it - if it is soft and the file cuts well, try peening it. If it peens well, do the same for the tang on the sword before assembling the handle and then after it is annealed, put on the washers and pommel and peen tight.
If it is hard after the annealing attempt you are better off to just try and peen it as is. Practice on one of the trial pieces and once you are confident it will peen cold, do the handle. If it is too hard to peen no matter what, either put a pin through the pommel and tang, or use JB weld to assemble the pommel. Even with peening, the JB Weld is a good idea.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip - this worked well. I cut a section out of the chain saw bar scrap and used that for your annealing test. At first I couldn't file it at all - it was too hard. Neither could I peen it over - it would break off in little square bits rather than mushroom or bend. But I heated it with my new torch until red like you suggested and afterward I could file it smooth and also had some luck peening it over. Does that tell us anything more about the type of steel? I did still notice some tiny cracks along the edges of the mushroomed steel on the peen - is that typical? Is there anything I can do to avoid those cracks? I want this sword to be really solid!

I didn't do anything to harden it. I was afraid if I heated it too much I'd wreck the temper and soften the steel so I kept cooling it in water when it got hot while working. I avoided ever turning it blue. Should I try to heat it somehow?

Thanks again for sharing your insights.
 
It sounds as if the bar was made of a hardenable alloy, and was in a hardened and tempered state. I wouldn't attempt and subsequent heat treatment of any type, if you kept it cool when grinding and took enough off after the plasma cut on the profile, you may even have a sword that will take some kind of edge. At least the majority of the blade should retain the original heat treat, which shouldn't be a very hard temper for a chainsaw bar.
I also wouldn't depend on this sword to not break or even hurt you in some way if tested hard. You never know.
As for the tang end, it's common for steels of all types to mushroom to the point of splitting at the edges when cold peened enough. It should be fine.

I recall reading somewhere that Oregon chainsaw bars used to be made of O1. I made a bowie out of one once, and it hardened well. I just don't think you'll be able to find absolute proof of your saw bar's alloy though.
 
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