Have you been fitted for a sword?

not2sharp

not2sharp

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In the old days if you wanted a sword you would walk into a shop to be fitted. As with a moderen set of golf clubs, an expert craftsman would build a sword to accommodate your physical build and then balance it to enhance your technique.

This kind of service is long gone. Many of the swords on the market today are scarcely adequate for human kind, and very few are fitted for the user.

So, for the would-be user, what are the key variables for fitting a sword to the person?
 
Robert,

I don't really have a sword in mind right now. I am just curious about the process. Did someone actually publish a manual on how to fit swords, did people actually walk into a shop and say I take one of those in a size ##?

There is plenty of information published on swords, but, very little on the taloring of European swords.
 
It varies really...

If you look at any given sword...it is not intended to be perfectly tailored to your hand as if you were being fitted for a suit. How fat your fingers are or the distance between your knuckles for example really aren't that important. Often times a handle can be made that will tailor easily to many hands. You'll find this to be the case on the higher end production stuff. On some customs, occasionally a maker will ask for a tracing of your hand or simple dimensions like the width of the palm at its widest point. Generally, if you have a particular size of hand that is to be of concern, try to make it a point that you have little hands, big hands, happy hands, ugly hands, et cetera. A scaled tracing of the hand can often give the maker --if nothing else-- a basic idea of the scale of your hand to his and how to modify the dimensions of the handle to accomodate you a bit better comparably. If you study a specific sword art that also has some requirements to the grip's length, thickness, shape, et cetera, it's wise to make a point of that. My hands are pretty normal sized and therefore I'm lucky that I can work comfortably with a relatively wide variety of shapes and sizes. I've held a variety of different tsuka shapes and sizes, from the relatively narrow and thin "contemporary" wraps to some very round, almost circular tsuka that were a bit odd. Good makers know how to make good ergonomic handles that suit the purposes of the swords they make, particularly if they correspond with the size of your hand. A good grasp on the handle is important. In some styles, the ergonomics of the handle make a bigger difference, and in others, only the general size and shape are important.

It's by no means impossible to have it tailored somewhat to your hands for a better fit. In many cases, you don't know if you'll get something that's really tailored for you or not, depends on how custom you're going and (correspondingly) how much you want to spend usually.
 
The proper fit for an infantry saber is pretty elementary. Only the blade length is fitted to the individual user, and this is done according to the height of the user.
Standing at the position of attention the blade should come just short of touching the ground. The only reason for this is to insure that the sword is not damaged during parade field drill and ceremony, it has nothing to do with the actual wielding of the saber.
Fit of a rapier is entirely a matter of personal preference. Finding that combination of hilt, pommel and grip shape that you find most pleasing, but there is no forumulaic fit.

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Tráceme no sin la razón, envoltura mi no sin honor
Usual Suspect
 
I remember looking at a 19th century sword catalog (one of the large Sologen factories) that offered a variation of blade lengths, blade weight, finish, hilt, and scabbard choices for each model then under production. It sound reasonable that a taller person may elect a longer sword than a shorter person. Or that someone might have a preference for a particular blade weight, or balance.

Clearly, we have a greater degree of choice today then anyone has ever had before. However, I am not sure we know how to take advantage of this. As with virtually every other piece of sporting equipment, there probably should be some general guidelines on selecting a properly sized sword. If we can fit skis, tennis rackets, bowling balls, and ice axes; then why not swords? It may be a fine sword, but it doesn't fit and it's not for you (unless you plan to hang it on your wall).

Has anyone come across a 19th documenting discussing this art?
 
Ken,

The issued infantry pattern swords were probably limited to the few models commissioned by the specific organization. Blade length was probably the only practical choice that could be supported. But, if you would have walked into a 19th century sword shop in a major cutlery center, what would that experience have been like? Would they have guessed at your height and walk you over to a stack of swords, or, would the process have been far more elaborate?

[This message has been edited by not2sharp (edited 02-21-2001).]
 
It's really hard to guess exactly how it would have gone once you entered the shop. Again, speaking only on the matter of rapiers, "fit" was a matter of very personal preference.

Oddly enough, when you say...

It sound reasonable that a taller person may elect a longer sword than a shorter person.
I'm willing to bet that it was pretty much the opposite of what you'd guess!
The use of the rapier was and is, more than anything about REACH. A short statured swordsman would want the longest blade he could manage, to compensate for the lack of "reach" over a taller man. Remember, with a rapier, blade length is pretty easy to work around when it comes to how that blade handles and balances.
With the right combination of blade thickness, hilt style and size of pommel, rapiers could and did reach sometimes ridiculous lengths. I seem to remember hearing of blades as long as 48 inches or more.
The blades I duel with are all 38 to 42 inches, and I find 42 to be about my limit, but then I don't practice 8 hours a day as some students of the period did!
(must be nice to be the "idle riche"
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So basically, I would imagine Joe Customer, or if you prefer, Guiseppe Customerri,
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walked into the shop, told them what blade length he wanted, and then collaborated with the maker to determine what hilt style and pommel would suit the user's tastes and give the balance needed.
For fine tuning, the pommels were probably swapped out until the "feel" was to the customer's liking.

(Disclaimer)
The above is "educated guess" not historical fact. If anyone can confirm or deny, I'd like to know for sure myself!
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Tráceme no sin la razón, envoltura mi no sin honor
Usual Suspect
 
Additional note to my above post...

The choice of pommel was and is still a pretty important choice.
I'm not up to speed on all the fencing terms, so pardon my attempts to describe what I'm talking about.

The pommel is highly important in rapier work, because at full extension, the pommel rests against the bottom of the forearm behind the joint of the wrist. This is significantly important because this is where a great deal of the rapier's "quickness" comes from.
The fingers, hooked on the quillon become the fulcrum and the wrist becomes the lever to move the point. Imagine a teeter totter.
Therefore, the choice of pommel shape and size was important to the savvy swordsman and he almost certainly had very particular preferences in this area.
This is, sadly one of the areas where modern fencing misses out, as the light weight of foil or epee' preclude any need for a pommel at all.


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Tráceme no sin la razón, envoltura mi no sin honor
Usual Suspect
 
My Dad was a 1934 graduate from West Point and went into the 3rd Cavalry when it was still horsed. He ordered his saber and it was custom made for him. One of the measurements that was particularly important was the distance from the hand to the ear. This was so that when you were carrying your saber in your right hand, on horseback, with the blade rested against your shooulder, the tip would be higher than your ear and you would not be skewering your ear with it as the horse went through its paces. Silly as it seems, Dad said that it was not uncommon for enlisted men to do just that when they got hold of a too short saber because they thought it easier to handle. Sergeants and junior officers like Dad had a constant task of watching to see that the men had sabers of the correct length.

As an aside, he taught me saber drill with his saber and with an old 1895 British cavalry saber that a Canadian officer friend had given him. Dad's saber was not so heavy, but that damned British saber was heavy as Hell! In any case, to manipulate them, you had to use your wrist and hang on to the hilt with your hand. When I got down to VMI for Rat Year, they taught us saber drill with the silly little cadet sabers that were light little toys in comparison to Dad's saber, let alone that British saber. Well, the cadet sergeant teaching us was very puzzled how I could get the moves right but never flip the saber around in my finger tips the way that he was teaching, so he asked me what I was doing, but not quite so politely. I explained that my father had taught me saber drill with his pre-WWII Regular Army officer's saber and with an 1895 British cavalry saber that were quite heavy, and that I had been taught to use my wrist rather than my finger tips to manipulate the piece. The sergeant gave me the cadet saber to go through the drill once more and agreed that I had it right, but that he had never seen it done quite that way. He and my Company Commander discussed it and decided that I should be left to do it my way, since it didn't matter one way or the other how I manipulateed the saber, as long as it was appropriately manipulated and not dropped.

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Walk in the Light,
Hugh Fuller

[This message has been edited by FullerH (edited 02-22-2001).]
 
That is COOL!
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I'd never have thought that the cavalry had a corrolary to the infantry blade length requirements. How interesting that the determining factor for both is parade field use.
It's really a shame that we're losing so much of the old technique and knowledge. We've lost the art of the Rapier, and are now finding out that we must "re-invent the wheel" through trial and error but thankfully there are still those few among us who are able to pass down the saber skills to another generation.
Make sure what you know isn't lost Hugh, someone down the line will be grateful.
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Tráceme no sin la razón, envoltura mi no sin honor
Usual Suspect
 
I've never had a real sword fitted to me because I'm not that rich...

On the other hand, I've fitted a wooden practice sword to myself:

The... tsuka (don't know the English term for the handle,) is the length between my wrist, and the inside of my elbow.

The entire thing is about 4 feet long, and the balance is about 8-10 inches into the blade.

This thing is heavy, I'd guess 3-5 lb, but having it fitted makes a world of difference; I can just twirl it around like it was part of my hand. Now if I try using an equivalent practice sword fitted for one of my friends, it's kind of like wearing your shoes on the wrong feet, it's just awkward.
 
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