Have You Ever Seen This Happen??? (Custom Collaborations))

Megalobyte

Megalobyte

Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Messages
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I was thinking about all of the collaborations whereby a popular custom maker licenses their design to a big production company to sell said design in a mass produced form. Examples are the Buck Mayo, the various Pardue/Benchmades, Carson/CRKTs, Buck/Striders and so on.

Here is my question. Have you ever seen an instance where the mass produced version was a BETTER made knife than the custom version? For example, if the Buck/Mayo was a better made knife than the same knife made by Tom himself. Of course, this isnt the case here, as well made as the Buck version is, a real Mayo is definitely superior, i know this having recently been fortunate enough to acquire 2 TnT's, and previously owning the Buck version, but of course the real Mayo is much higher in price.

I was thinking of all the various collaborations and i really couldnt think of an example of this, the ONLY one i can come up with is possibly the Microtech LCC, i have handled and examined a few custom Lightfoot LCC's and frankly, i think Microtech's QC is actually better. The MT LCC is an amazingly well made knife, particularly at the price it currently sells for.

So, can anybody else think of an instance where this has possibly happened?
 
I always thought that Benchmades Emerson CQC7 was better than Emerson's were that might ahve changed through the years since BM quit making the CQC7 though, I have not seen one of Emersons in a few years.

On a side note I always thought Spyderco made a better knife than Ayoob designed it to be.
 
Originally posted by Megalobyte
and previously owning the Buck version
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:eek: :eek: Didn't you just post a thread about how much you loved the knife and how you wanted a second. One for carry and one to be kept mint???

Now you sold it?:confused:
 
BG, actually, i miswrote what i meant to say, what i meant was i already owned a Buck/Mayo before getting 2 real ones, so i have the 2 to compare to each other, no, i do still have the Buck/Mayo, havent sold it, though now that i have 2 real ones, not sure i need it anymore. I had originally bought it to be a well made user, but when i got it home and played with it, i realized it was too damn perfect and precise to use, very Sebenza-like, so i never actually carried or used it! I know, im pathetic, but when i come across a really well made knife, i just cant bring myself to use it, unless its a cheap knife, under $100.

I know i miss out on the satisfaction of using a well made knife as it was intended, but i cant help it, i dont use knives as hard or often as many of you, and a relatively cheap, but decent little knife easily suffices for my daily chores, mostly opening boxes, so i use the cheapies and keep the nice ones mint. Sue me. :)

I have found some really well made knives that arent expensive and its those i actually use, knowing i can always replace it. CRKT is making great knives for the $, as is Kershaw, the Buck Striders are great for $100. One time i said to myself: "OK< its time you used one of your nice knives, so i was going to break out a NIB Sebenza i had laying around, i took it out of its box, played with it for a few minutes, and then, yes, you guessed it, put it back and bought a cheap knife to use. :) Yes, im hopeless, i know it...
 
Sorry for the thread drift! I was just shocked when I was reading thinking you sold it.
 
Oh yeah, forgot, NGK, i might get flamed for agreeing with you, and if i posted the following on USN, id probably get death threats, but i have examined quite a few custom Emersons, and wasnt particularly impressed with their quality. Yes, i like the design, and they do have a very, for lack of a betetr word: "Tactical" look and feel about them, but for $1250 and up, i was unimpressed, thin liners, poorly fitted locks, blade play, uncentered blades, just not what i would expect in a $1250 knife. And i honestly dont see why people will gladly pay $1250 for one, when they could have an Obenauf for $325 that is WAY better made. Maybe im missing something.
 
No, and I don't expect I ever will. If a knifemaker couldn't make a better knife by hand than the factories can mass-produce at a tenth of the cost, his career would never get off the ground. The factories want to license designs from successful knifemakers.
 
Not even close. The collaborations I have used have all been good for the price, but not in the same league as the original and that includes the LCC.
 
Originally posted by Megalobyte
Oh yeah, forgot, NGK, i might get flamed for agreeing with you, and if i posted the following on USN, id probably get death threats, but i have examined quite a few custom Emersons, and wasnt particularly impressed with their quality. Yes, i like the design, and they do have a very, for lack of a betetr word: "Tactical" look and feel about them, but for $1250 and up, i was unimpressed, thin liners, poorly fitted locks, blade play, uncentered blades, just not what i would expect in a $1250 knife. And i honestly dont see why people will gladly pay $1250 for one, when they could have an Obenauf for $325 that is WAY better made. Maybe im missing something.
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i couldn't agree more
 
I haven't seen any collaborations where the factory knife was better than the makers. I have seen a few that get fairly close, but non the exceed. Camillus and the Fisk Bowie come to mind.

You say you have examined quite a few custom Emersons and found the quality to be less than expected for a $1250 knife. First off, Emerson doesn't charge that much for his knives, that is the secondary market that drives the prices up. I have examined quite a few of his customs as well as owning a few and haven't come across the problems you have described. While I will agree on the secondary market price seeming to be a bit high, I would have to disagree on the quality issue you describe. Every custom Emerson I have handled has been a solid, well made knife. I have not heard of any similar complaints about his customs.
 
If you ask Rob Simonich, he'll tell you the Mid-Tech versions of his Raven fixed blade are superior to his own handmade versions, but I think he's just being his modest self.
 
Rob is of course referring to the precision grind that the CNC grinder puts on the blades as compared to his own efforts at trying to line up both grinds well, as well as the exactness that the CNC cuts out the handles.......no one can match the precision of a tight CNC machine as compared to the naked eye and trained hand.
 
True enough, Tom, but it also lacks the spirit of a real custom.

Actually the only way I find myself able to truly enjoy a custom is if I contract with the maker and communicate with him throughout the building process, maybe even request a couple special touches.

Part of the fun of customs is their personability, and I think even when you buy a handmade from KnifeArt or something, you lose alot of that (it feels more like buying a very high-end production knife)
 
Originally posted by YoungCutter
...you lose alot of that (it feels more like buying a very high-end production knife)
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Well, that is until you pay for it, then you remember its a custom. :)

To respond to Dirk's questions/comments about Emerson customs. Look, all i can tell you is what i personally saw, and of the 10 or so Emerson customs i examined, i found play in almost all of them, the liners engaged sometimes properly, sometimes not, blades were often off center, i suppose its possible i just happened to see 10 rare lemons, but i doubt it. Im not saying they were bad knives, but to a perfectionist like me, who looks for extreme precision in a knife, they were disappointing. I look at a $325 Obenauf and think of the Emersons, and there is no comparison in my eyes, but of course, thats just one guy's experience and opinion.

To be fair though, i have seen a flawed knife or 2 from almost all of the top makers, seems like its inevitable that one will slip by eventually, but the good makers make it a rare occurrence, heck, i LOVE Carson's knives and think he's one of the best ever, and ive seen 1 or 2 of his with locks that could have been fitted a little better and an uncentered blade or 2. But man, when he makes a "good" one, and most are, its VERY good. Same with Mayo, Obenauf and JWS.
 
I agree on the LCC. I saw some last year and the Microtech model beat them in every way. I was very suprised by this.

I hate to say this....but I think some of Benchamdes Elishewitz models are a little bit tighter than some of his older knives that they were based on........
 
The price of Emersons on the secondary market has been dropping a lot lately. They are still more than I find reasonable, but they have come down a fair bit.
 
I like some of the Spyderco Custom Collaborations like the Starmate and the Lum Chinese better than the real thing.
 
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