Have you seen real benefits of 3V on a folder like the AD20.5?

Joined
Dec 29, 2021
Messages
4,138
I just got an absolutely razor sharp, 5mm slab of 6" 3V in the form of a Cold Steel SRK and I wonder if 3V would even be worth it on a folder, as I have a Demko in the steel coming in. I get Cruwear and M4, those have other attributes to make them very desirable, though, sharpenability, cutting performance....

So as I look at this beast of a fixed blade, I say to myself - is 3v worth an extra hundred on the folder? I have had no issues with AUS-10a. What say you?
 
It wasn't an extra $100 when I bought mine, but I like it well enough. Cutting plastic straps on kids toys has neither damaged the edge nor made a noticeable difference in sharpness. I'm glad I paid I think it was $35 over D2 or AUS10.
 
I’m a big fan of 3V when done right, and it is done right on the 20.5. I have 10 of them in 3V now, so I have had multiple examples to compare. Yes, they can develop rust spots if you leave them wet and dirty, but the stonewash helps to prevent some of this. In terms of edge retention, it has been somewhat better than my Aus10A (although I only have two of those) examples. The edges have all been factory sharp, with uniform bevels, and I have yet to find an example with poor fit and finish. My point is that they have all been extremely consistent.

That said, I am an unabashed fan of Cold Steel, and have a collection of their XL folders. The 20.5 (Grivory or G10) could easily be a Cold Steel knife, but it would likely have a larger blade (which I would welcome). I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the Demkos are using one of the same factories in Taiwan that Cold Steel uses for their nicer knives.

Here’s a thread I’ve made about most of my 20.5s, but it doesn’t really go into detail about cutting performance:

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/demko-textured-titanium-20-5’s…knifecenter-exclusive.1884614/
 
Last edited:
In my opinion, toughness in a folder steel is not a real concern. Yeah, it's kind of nice to know you'll bend or fracture the pivot, rendering the knife useless, before the blade permanently deforms from prying, but most people who worry about crap like that will never use a knife for anything close to that, so it's kind of moot.

Give me an alloy that takes a good edge fairly easily and holds it reasonably well. Toughness is only a consideration in a fixed blade.
 
In my opinion, toughness in a folder steel is not a real concern. Yeah, it's kind of nice to know you'll bend or fracture the pivot, rendering the knife useless, before the blade permanently deforms from prying, but most people who worry about crap like that will never use a knife for anything close to that, so it's kind of moot.

Give me an alloy that takes a good edge fairly easily and holds it reasonably well. Toughness is only a consideration in a fixed blade.
I'm thinking the same, especially considering the very nice fixed blades of 420HC, 1075, and 3V that I have, boy this SRK is nice, and solid folders like the M4 Shaman if I need a strong folder but laws prevent fixed blade carry (LA)
 
On my Cold Steel folders, I prefer the S35 blades, but I’ve had no issues with my Aus10. A few haven’t been razor sharp from the factory, but that’s easily fixed.

While I’m a huge fan of 3V on the 20.5, as I see it as a hard use EDC knife, I do wish they offered it with S35 or S45 as well for people who prefer stainless. I do a lot of farm work, and I haven’t managed to roll an edge on my 3V 20.5s yet, so I’d say that that is a testament to the heat treat.

That said, I also carry a Voyager XL and Recon 1 (S35) in my tractor toolbox, and I haven’t screwed those up yet either. I have dulled the Voyager and put some minor rolls on the edge a few times, but it hasn’t chipped out. I think that the S35 Recon would hold up to almost as much abuse as 3V, but I can say for certain that Aus10 is less tough for hard use than either of them, based on what I’ve seen.

For normal EDC use, Aus10 is perfectly adequate in terms of toughness, but will dull slightly faster than 3V, and much faster than S35.
 
Last edited:
On my Cold Steel folders, I prefer the S35 blades, but I’ve had no issues with my Aus10. A few haven’t been razor sharp from the factory, but that’s easily fixed.

While I’m a huge fan of 3V on the 20.5, as I see it as a hard use EDC knife, I do wish they offered it with S35 or S45 as well for people who prefer stainless. I do a lot of farm work, and I haven’t managed to roll an edge on my 3V 20.5s yet, so I’d say that that is a testament to the heat treat.

That said, I also carry a Voyager XL and Recon 1 (S35) in my tractor toolbox, and I haven’t screwed those up yet either. I have dulled the Voyager and put some minor rolls on the edge a few times, but it hasn’t chipped out. I think that the S35 Recon would hold up to almost as much abuse as 3V, but I can say for certain that Aus10 is less tough for hard use than either of them, based on what I’ve seen.

For normal EDC use, Aus10 is perfectly adequate in terms of toughness, but will dull slightly faster than 3V, and much faster than S35.
Very well-thought out reply, thank you.

I probably could be talked into keeping my 3V Demko if I did not have my M4 Shaman, the ergos on that thing when I was biting into hardwood over up my local nature preserve was just amazing, M4 is some tough stuff, and will keep an edge. Speaking of, if you like hard-use folders... Shaman. M4, preferably, but anything works. So nice. Otherwise, I choose a Cruwear PM2 if I don't expect to basically want a hard-carver. Where I live, I am hesitant to just walk around with a fixed blade because of the laws around them (they prefer folders in LA county but hey, no length limit!).

I love my Voyager XL! Carried it today actually! Thanks for the exp on AUS-10A, I've chopped a bit of wood and taken apart a couch with it, a hone on the Sharpmaker got it very satisfyingly sharp.... when it came out in the days of AUS-4 and 6, it was by all accounts a super-steel, and I heard people from 12 years ago comparing it to VG-10, calling it a souped-up 440C, and that may not all be fact, but I like a good low-alloy steel, if treated well.
20220926_104734.jpg

You prefer stainless? Just because or for a reason? I usually only specifically want it on knives meant to be pretty, like the fancy Espada XL or my engraved Ti PM2, or meant to be in water. I haven't had a lot of rust issues, except the really hot parts of this month. Was happy for my S30V Yojumbo and XHP Native Chief as I like to EDC around 4" of locking knife and my usual K390 Police was a no-go.

I don't dislike it either, it comes in handy for example in a knife like Yojumbo/Ronin/Matriarch, the S30V/BD1/VG-10 can be trusted to be up aganist me for a long time without worry, but I'm no Meal Team 6, got a Yo2 in 20CV and Cruwear to compare the steels in the same platform (love Wharncliffes). The silly thing? The Cruwear is satin but the 20CV came in DLC... I mean Cruwear is practically stainless, but it's moreso 20CV having DLC and no such option on Cruwear, haha.

I like some good knives that happen to have a good stainless, S45VN, a small M390 Microtech, S30V... but I do not scoff at low-alloy stainless like 420HC, BD1N, VG-10, even AUS-8 is okay in an EDC knife for me, and I love Victorinox steel, always have a SAK! I like all that, too.

I unfortunately have not got to use CS's S35 a lot in reality because I only have it in my fancy Espada and my Black Talon II so.... I feel like AEB-L (overlooked steel imo, super tough and very very stainless), Cruwear, or XHP, even. Would love an XHP Espada. I know the knife is thin because of its fighting nature, but I think it could make good use as a light machete, esp if I find an XHP version or stop using this version as a safe queen!


esp.jpeg

Other than my Moras, these are my only "good" fixed blades, and I just got the SRK 3V in today. Ontario SP-1, bombproof but thick 1075, classic 119, Benchmade 200 3V Puukko, and my David Mary EDC gentleman's bag spearpoint. Hopefully the Moras, SRK and Ontario help me get into some tougher stuff. Eventually plan to learn to hunt.
20220926_174600.jpg
 
Very well-thought out reply, thank you.

I probably could be talked into keeping my 3V Demko if I did not have my M4 Shaman, the ergos on that thing when I was biting into hardwood over up my local nature preserve was just amazing, M4 is some tough stuff, and will keep an edge. Speaking of, if you like hard-use folders... Shaman. M4, preferably, but anything works. So nice. Otherwise, I choose a Cruwear PM2 if I don't expect to basically want a hard-carver. Where I live, I am hesitant to just walk around with a fixed blade because of the laws around them (they prefer folders in LA county but hey, no length limit!).

I love my Voyager XL! Carried it today actually! Thanks for the exp on AUS-10A, I've chopped a bit of wood and taken apart a couch with it, a hone on the Sharpmaker got it very satisfyingly sharp.... when it came out in the days of AUS-4 and 6, it was by all accounts a super-steel, and I heard people from 12 years ago comparing it to VG-10, calling it a souped-up 440C, and that may not all be fact, but I like a good low-alloy steel, if treated well.
View attachment 1942280

You prefer stainless? Just because or for a reason? I usually only specifically want it on knives meant to be pretty, like the fancy Espada XL or my engraved Ti PM2, or meant to be in water. I haven't had a lot of rust issues, except the really hot parts of this month. Was happy for my S30V Yojumbo and XHP Native Chief as I like to EDC around 4" of locking knife and my usual K390 Police was a no-go.

I don't dislike it either, it comes in handy for example in a knife like Yojumbo/Ronin/Matriarch, the S30V/BD1/VG-10 can be trusted to be up aganist me for a long time without worry, but I'm no Meal Team 6, got a Yo2 in 20CV and Cruwear to compare the steels in the same platform (love Wharncliffes). The silly thing? The Cruwear is satin but the 20CV came in DLC... I mean Cruwear is practically stainless, but it's moreso 20CV having DLC and no such option on Cruwear, haha.

I like some good knives that happen to have a good stainless, S45VN, a small M390 Microtech, S30V... but I do not scoff at low-alloy stainless like 420HC, BD1N, VG-10, even AUS-8 is okay in an EDC knife for me, and I love Victorinox steel, always have a SAK! I like all that, too.

I unfortunately have not got to use CS's S35 a lot in reality because I only have it in my fancy Espada and my Black Talon II so.... I feel like AEB-L (overlooked steel imo, super tough and very very stainless), Cruwear, or XHP, even. Would love an XHP Espada. I know the knife is thin because of its fighting nature, but I think it could make good use as a light machete, esp if I find an XHP version or stop using this version as a safe queen!


View attachment 1942300

Other than my Moras, these are my only "good" fixed blades, and I just got the SRK 3V in today. Ontario SP-1, bombproof but thick 1075, classic 119, Benchmade 200 3V Puukko, and my David Mary EDC gentleman's bag spearpoint. Hopefully the Moras, SRK and Ontario help me get into some tougher stuff. Eventually plan to learn to
I need to get a full dress Espada Xl, and I love those purple paisley scales on your pictured Spyderco…also, your tanto XL Voyager a beast of a knife. I have several, and they are underrated in my estimation. I would suggest a SE version as well, even if you don’t like serrated blades in general.

My only Shaman is S30V, and I love it. That knife can certainly take almost anything that I throw at it within EDC limits…and it doesn’t flinch. I’m sure that the M4 version is basically indestructible for all intents and purposes. I should get one.

Comparing a 20.5 and Shaman really just comes down to preference IMO. I think that either of these are about the best hard use EDC folders ever made. I love the ergos on both, and I’m a fan if both the shark and compression lock. If I had to choose only one, I’d probably opt for the 20.5, but that’s the ONLY folder that I’d consider for hard EDC use against the Shaman. Again, I have 11 20.5s and only 1 Shaman…mainly because the Shaman has been hard to get ahold of in anything other than G10/30v without going to a secondary market.

I absolutely love the Cruwear PM2, especially the brown micarta version. It’s plenty strong btw - I have abused that knife, and it has easily held its own. I have 2 of them in case I destroy one somehow.

I don’t personally qualify a steel by its stainless properties like I did years ago, as many modern stainless steels are so good. So no, I wouldn’t only get a stainless for a dress knife or for when its ultra hot or humid out nowadays. I used to scoff at considering stainless for abusive knife work, but I’ve seen enough in the past decade to know that modern super stainless steels are up to almost any “normal” challenge.

Yes - Aus10A was indeed considered a killer steel not all that long ago, as was VG-10. They are both still excellent steels, and I think that Cold Steel does Aus10A as well as Spyderco does VG-10…which is about as good as those steels can get. The heat treat with both of these is very important…I’ve had some VG-10 cutlery knives that were garbage next to Spyderco’s VG-10. The edge retention was a joke, and after two sharpenings, I gifted them to a friend who is not a knife snob like myself.

I also regularly carry a K390 Police (SE) as one of my primary EDC blades, but I substitute it with a S90V Native Chief when I feel that it might be too hot or wet out. The Native Chief and Police are two of my favorite knives ever made. I am really excited about the Military 2 with the compression lock, especially if it comes in Magnacut.

I am a Victorinox fan through and through, and I will always love their stainless. I have a collection of their various models, and I still regularly carry a Swisschamp that my mother gave me in 1996…apart from some cleanings and many sharpenings, its as good as ever. If I ever meet someone who just wants a decent first knife, I’ll always recommend a SAK before anything else.

If you want to get a good feel for CS’s S35 without defiling your beloved Espada or putting your Black Talon to use for which it was not intended, I recommend trying an S35 DLC Recon 1. I can promise that it will hold up to about as much as you could throw at it. If you want something more svelte, but not huge, the Code 4 is very nice, and without the diamond coating. If you want to go large, the Frenzy is an amazing knife, and probably my favorite CS ever.

3V vs good 1075 or 1095? That’s hard to assess,
as the heat treat really comes into play. I will say that I have a bunch of 1075 and 1095 blades (I loves Topps and Condor) that take a serious beating…but they need a lot of resharpening, and both steels will roll, even if heat treated correctly…they do not chip though in my experience. Try a Condor Makara machete or a Topps 111A Steel Eagle if you want to feel 1075 or 1095 at its craziest best…But, I have a 12” bladed Bark River Bravo 3 in 3V that is just insane. I have beat that knife unmercifully, and it is by far the best steel to combine toughness and edge retention that I’ve ever experienced. I can’t get the edge to roll, and I don’t think that it would chip unless you were to beat it on concrete or metal…Of course, it’s a monster of a knife both in thickness and length, and you feel the weight every time you use it…but wow.

My guess is that your SRK is going to make you very happy. I assume that the 3V is heat treated the same as on the 20.5s, and if so, its very good 3V indeed.

EDIT: I think that your S35 Espada is so close to an XHP version that it’s negligible. I really can’t tell a difference between the steels, at least on Cold Steels. For what it costs nowadays to get one in XHP, I don’t think that there is a practical difference. But if you want it for collection sake, I totally understand.

The Aus10 on the Espada XL will really take a lot of abuse…I think that the mass and geometry comes into play here, but I have “macheted” fairly large foliage with my Aus10, and it hasn’t even phased it.

Lastly, I need to try a Mora of some sort. I’ve never touched one, and considering how affordable they are, I have no excuse for not doing so.
 
Last edited:
Just a general point on the misconception that toughness is only important in large fixed blades:

If your edge is thin enough (which it should be, as thin edge geometry is the most critical factor in cutting performance), then toughness is important to prevent chipping. Hardness is also important to prevent rolling.
 
I need to get a full dress Espada Xl, and I love those purple paisley scales on your pictured Spyderco…also, your tanto XL Voyager a beast of a knife. I have several, and they are underrated in my estimation. I would suggest a SE version as well, even if you don’t like serrated blades in general.

My only Shaman is S30V, and I love it. That knife can certainly take almost anything that I throw at it within EDC limits…and it doesn’t flinch. I’m sure that the M4 version is basically indestructible for all intents and purposes. I should get one.





Lastly, I need to try a Mora of some sort. I’ve never touched one, and considering how affordable they are, I have no excuse for not doing so.
Your info is very valuable, thanks my man! I am getting more into this kind of usage so it helps to hear your exp. with your knives, and the CS rec.

I'd rec for just trying out the brand, depending on what tasks you wanna try, a Mora 511 Basic for like $8 for outdoors work, gave one to my mom and its indestructible, her yard knife... or a Precision/"120/21/22" series for woodcarving! Those are like, twice as much (a whole $15! haha). Great, great knives. Also, BHQ ordered a LOT of M4 Micarta Shamans, like, they're in stock for weeks, in stock today, will be tomorrow, and so on. Just throwing that out there cause I know lots of people don't wanna do the Exclusive chase.

Also, seems like we have similar tastes in EDC blades! Also excited for that Millie 2, as the only one I have, the CPM-440V, first powder steel put in a production knife, is as old as me, but still a solid knife! Here's the first/main part of my EDC box (four more drawers, each with a sort of theme, traditional, mid-size EDC, SD-based, and the SAK drawer - the ones up top have 4 or more layers and can't fit) and if it's any indication, most of the fancier stuff is in a still-accessible display box.
20220927_135120.jpg
 
Last edited:
Your info is very valuable, thanks my man! I am getting more into this kind of usage so it helps to hear your exp. with your knives, and the CS rec.

I'd rec for just trying out the brand, depending on what tasks you wanna try, a Mora 511 Basic for like $8 for outdoors work, gave one to my mom and its indestructible, her yard knife... or a Precision/"120/21/22" series for woodcarving! Those are like, twice as much (a whole $15! haha). Great, great knives. Also, BHQ ordered a LOT of M4 Micarta Shamans, like, they're in stock for weeks, in stock today, will be tomorrow, and so on. Just throwing that out there cause I know lots of people don't wanna do the Exclusive chase.

Also, seems like we have similar tastes in EDC blades! Also excited for that Millie 2, as the only one I have, the CPM-440V, first powder steel put in a production knife, is as old as me, but still a solid knife! Here's the first/main part of my EDC box (four more drawers, each with a sort of theme, traditional, mid-size EDC, SD-based, and the SAK drawer - the ones up top have 4 or more layers and can't fit) and if it's any indication, most of the fancier stuff is in a still-accessible display box.
View attachment 1942881
Ah - sweet - I just ordered the green micarta M4 Shaman from Blade HQ…and was very tempted to get a SE as well…but managed to hold off because it’s 30V (and I’m snob 🤣). I also ordered a few Moras to give them a test…a 511, a Robust, and a 106 Wood Carving - I figure this will be a decent introduction to them.

Your shown EDC drawer has a lot of similarities to my daily users. What is that purple looking knife? An auto?

Since you like larger Spydercos, if you can get ahold of a Subvert for a decent price, that is a very cool large Spydie that is very unique and extremely well built. There’s nothing else quite like it. I’d have bought 2 or 3 (for modding) when they were around, had I known that they would have been so short lived on the primary market. Spyderco should really release it again in some new colors.
 
In my opinion, toughness in a folder steel is not a real concern. Yeah, it's kind of nice to know you'll bend or fracture the pivot, rendering the knife useless, before the blade permanently deforms from prying, but most people who worry about crap like that will never use a knife for anything close to that, so it's kind of moot.

Give me an alloy that takes a good edge fairly easily and holds it reasonably well. Toughness is only a consideration in a fixed blade.
Until some idiot who doesn't know the difference between a thin bladed high hardness cutting steel knife with a fragile tip and a crowbar borrows it and tries to pry open a paint can lid glued shut with a thick layer of dried paint. It never happened to me and it is less likely if my blade is not a fragile and brittle steel that holds an edge forever but snaps in half if you look at it wrong. Prying open a paint can lid is not below me provided I have a knife that can handle it.

Truthfully the choice of steel all depends on how you intend to use the blade.

I am very glad the AD20.5 is also made in 3V steel. If I carried it everyday at the beach or on a boat at sea maybe not so much. 3V is not limited to fixed blades in order to be useful as far as I know.
 
Last edited:
If you have a hard use, slicey EDC it makes sense to have blade options made from CPM 3V, M4, or Cru-Wear. I noticed they even did a 3V version of the Benchmade Bailout, with Grivory instead of aluminum scales, to make it even more of a competitor with their own Bugout knives.
 
Back
Top