Having hard time sharpening smaller blades

[schnellschnell]

Hello all,

I have been sharpening knives for a little while, from Lansky, to Apex EdgePro and now to stones. My stones are chosera 400 and 1000, and a 5000 that I don't recall the name.

Anyhow, I can sharpen large kitchen knives very quickly and very sharp on the stones. But when I move to small tactical knives (2" folder w drop point, Izula 2, Spyderco Chicago) I can't seem to keep the angle consistent, especially around the curves and tip. I am buying some cheap knives to practice on but can't seem to get an edge up to my kitchen knife standards. Partly this may be down to using a more oblique angle on the tactical knives, but still frustrating.

I am having a hard time finding good vids on small knives, most cover chef knives. Other videos use sharpening systems. If you have links of tactical on wetstone I'd appreciate it..

Overall the move to smaller knives (even my paring knives are picky) has been very humbling as I continue to sharpen more and more knives. Any advice is appreciated.


J

 

[Magnaminous_G]

I had the opposite problem, moving from small knives to large knives. With a lot of advice and practice, I've just started to get comfortable doing larger knives. The key is practice, practice and more practice. But you asked for vids. Check out knifenut's vids. His YT handle is MrEdgy81. There are some excellent tactical folder vids in there.

 

[kenstogie]

I am no pro but use the Edge Pro Apex with stock stones and have no problem with the bigger stuff. I had a hard time with the small stuff, like small folders with thumb studs. With practice I am getting better and better. Last night I sharpened my 2 1/2 inch blade length folder (w thumb stud) so sharp that I can actually shave the hair on my arm. I never thought that I would be able to do that, but yes with practice I can. So I guess what I am saying is practice on your knives, your friends knives or heck any knives and it will come.

 

[schnellschnell]

The Edge Pro is pretty good with the small knives, but I want to become proficient with stones - that is my goal. I find I feel much more connected to the sharpening process with stones than I ever did with the apex.

MrEdgy81 has some good videos, watching them now! Thanks.

My wife thinks I am crazy buying all sorts of knives lately just to sharpen them.

j

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I've kind of gravitated to using a circular/elliptical motion with smaller blades, when freehanding them. Many of my habits were built around using small, pocket-sized hones, and this technique is well-suited to them. I find it easier to control the angle this way, rather than using edge-leading strokes (stroke, lift the blade, replace on the hone, stroke again, etc.). The circular/elliptical motion only requires positioning the angle once, and then 'scrubbing' the blade, working sections at a time, only lifting it to check progress.

With real small blades, such as found on small traditional pocketknives, this technique is all-the-more helpful, because the handle itself is barely large enough to maintain a consistent grip (therefore a consistent angle), if having to stroke/lift/replace, stroke/lift/replace, etc. I also find it easier with very flexible blades as well, which flex & move so much in response to variations in pressure.


David

 

[russianpolander]

Currently, on blades smaller than 3" long and 1" wide, I use my belt sander. Very light passes and get two nice opposing angles then go to sandpaper on blocks and work towards my strops. I use a Gatco with diamond hones for anything I can clamp in it and move towards the strops after it as well. Unless I drop some dimes on a Wicked Edge, I am content with my results so far.

 

[HeavyHanded]

I've kind of gravitated to using a circular/elliptical motion with smaller blades, when freehanding them. Many of my habits were built around using small, pocket-sized hones, and this technique is well-suited to them. I find it easier to control the angle this way, rather than using edge-leading strokes (stroke, lift the blade, replace on the hone, stroke again, etc.). The circular/elliptical motion only requires positioning the angle once, and then 'scrubbing' the blade, working sections at a time, only lifting it to check progress.

With real small blades, such as found on small traditional pocketknives, this technique is all-the-more helpful, because the handle itself is barely large enough to maintain a consistent grip (therefore a consistent angle), if having to stroke/lift/replace, stroke/lift/replace, etc. I also find it easier with very flexible blades as well, which flex & move so much in response to variations in pressure.


David

I use a very short scrubbing motion as well, but more of a fore and aft. Much of this developed in response to creating even wear on my waterstones - moving around the stone, working the ends, requires short strokes much of the time. IMHO with the smaller blades it becomes critical not to use longer sweeping movements, esp with the (as you note) smaller handles and even reduced blade surface area for the support hand. You cannot pound wire brads like they are #12 nails, or saw picture frames as you would a 2x4.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I use a very short scrubbing motion as well, but more of a fore and aft. Much of this developed in response to creating even wear on my waterstones - moving around the stone, working the ends, requires short strokes much of the time. IMHO with the smaller blades it becomes critical not to use longer sweeping movements, esp with the (as you note) smaller handles and even reduced blade surface area for the support hand. You cannot pound wire brads like they are #12 nails, or saw picture frames as you would a 2x4.

Yes, that's additionally good advice too. I keep my motion pretty compact, mostly just because I'm usually doing this on small hones (especially on DMT's 'credit card' hones), but it's good that you pointed this out. As the stroke/motion gets longer or wider, there's more opportunity for variation in angle and other loss of complete control.

Something else that helps me, especially with smaller blades, is to adequately lubricate the hone. I'm developing a preference for using mineral oil or something similar, even on a diamond hone. Anything to smooth out the motion, and prevent the edge from digging in and 'pitching' to and fro, will help. This usually improves tactile feedback as well.


David

 

[Swoop03]

I put the same edge on everything I have. I use the thinnest angle my lansky will do. It says 17 degrees, so that'd be 8.5 per side. Even on my "tactical" Blades I thin them out because I have no need for an oblique edge. My PM2 just glides right through everything with that edge when done right. For small blades like a SAK, I'll use a 1000 grit diamond credit card stone, super fine ceramic rods then I strop carefully and slowly as to not ruin the edge. I like using sandpaper and a soft backing as well to get a nice convex edge on knives around 3 inches that aren't as wide like a spyderco.

 

[OHALLUM]

I put the same edge on everything I have. I use the thinnest angle my lansky will do. It says 17 degrees, so that'd be 8.5 per side. Even on my "tactical" Blades I thin them out because I have no need for an oblique edge. My PM2 just glides right through everything with that edge when done right. For small blades like a SAK, I'll use a 1000 grit diamond credit card stone, super fine ceramic rods then I strop carefully and slowly as to not ruin the edge. I like using sandpaper and a soft backing as well to get a nice convex edge on knives around 3 inches that aren't as wide like a spyderco.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but the lansky @ 17* marking, will give you an effectively angle of 34*. Of course, this is not actually what you wind up with, as it also depends how far from the edge of the clamp the edge of the knife is located. To see for sure what angle you are getting, invest in an "angle cube".

Not saying this to be a smart @@@ but a lot of people misunderstand this, myself included when I first researched these tools. Sorry it I came across that way. :foot:

Omar

 

[ConBon]

I've kind of gravitated to using a circular/elliptical motion with smaller blades, when freehanding them. Many of my habits were built around using small, pocket-sized hones, and this technique is well-suited to them. I find it easier to control the angle this way, rather than using edge-leading strokes (stroke, lift the blade, replace on the hone, stroke again, etc.). The circular/elliptical motion only requires positioning the angle once, and then 'scrubbing' the blade, working sections at a time, only lifting it to check progress.

With real small blades, such as found on small traditional pocketknives, this technique is all-the-more helpful, because the handle itself is barely large enough to maintain a consistent grip (therefore a consistent angle), if having to stroke/lift/replace, stroke/lift/replace, etc. I also find it easier with very flexible blades as well, which flex & move so much in response to variations in pressure.

+1
If doing really small blades, I prefer to use pocket stones in various grits through the stages instead of bench stones.

Connor

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I put the same edge on everything I have. I use the thinnest angle my lansky will do. It says 17 degrees, so that'd be 8.5 per side. (...)

Sorry to bust your bubble, but the lansky @ 17* marking, will give you an effectively angle of 34*. Of course, this is not actually what you wind up with, as it also depends how far from the edge of the clamp the edge of the knife is located. To see for sure what angle you are getting, invest in an "angle cube".

Omar

Yes, the '17' setting is 'per side' (as are the other markings), so the implied result would be 34° inclusive. And with the Lansky, that measurement is only close to being accurate if measured at the very front edge of the clamp. Any blade edge extending beyond that will sharpen up at an angle somewhat less (I measured for it on mine). Only way to get 8.5°/side with the Lansky, is if the blade is very, very wide, maybe something like a large cleaver, if even that's wide enough.

Here's an image extracted from the online copy of Lansky's printed instructions, which shows (graphically) the marked angle settings are a 'per side' measurement:

(image extracted from -->: http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/lansky/docs/Lansky_instructions.pdf )


David

 

[schnellschnell]

I used MrEdgy81's technique today on some larger knives to great success after some practice. For my 2" Spyderco Chicago I ended up using a very shortened version of his technique, but didn't make it to circles / ellipses. It was a lot better than my last attempt so I am happy about that. I'll have to try the circles on a small cheap knife I bought to test on.

Thanks for all the info.

The Lansky used to bother me getting angles set right, ended up giving it to my brother in law when I got my EdgePro and never looked back. It is still going strong though!


j