hawk a tool or weapon

A

aleyn1975

Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
108
I saw this post in knifeforums and it scared the heck out of me. Someone who is considered an expert witness claims tomahawks are not tools, were never intended as tools, and are weapons. Also states they are terrible at chopping.

My reply, after looking at my own states laws and calming down a bit:

Texas - Health, Safety & Morals - 46.02. Unlawful carrying
weapons. (a) A person commits an offense if intentionally,
knowingly , or recklessly carries on or about his person a
handgun, illegal knife, or club. EXCEPTIONS: official;
actor was on own premises; was traveling; engaged in lawful
hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity; security
guard].
- 46.01. Definitions. (1) "Club"... includes... (D)
Tomahawk...

Texas, and other states, consider tomahawks weapons. That said, they make it legal for you to carry them under certain conditions. Tomahawk and axe throwing are sports, IE they hold competitions, give prizes, etc. Hiking is a sport, kayaking and canoeing are sports. Leave the hawk at home if you are hiking on a trail that prohibits any cutting of vegetation. Even if you are on the way to a hawk throwing competition and carrying the hawk in a truck (like mine a single cab) anywhere inside that cab will be considered accessible. Lock them up in a gun case and make them not readily accessible.
As to whether or not the tomahawk is a tool or weapon, it has been a far superior tool for me than any hand axe while in the woods. It's longer handle, light weight, and thinner edge profile make it better at cutting wood for me, though not for splitting wood, and also less weight to carry.
DO NOT waste time thinking to argue that a tomahawk is a tool and not a weapon no matter your actual use of it. Texas law is pretty clear that it is to be considered a weapon and you must remember this when you have one on your person or in your vehicle. Be able to prove the legal conditions for carrying the hawk or knife and you should be fine in court. This does not mean that you won't be charged by the initial officer. It sucks, but that's the way it currently is.
 
Didn't TX law recently change, or get better defined, so that "while traveling" means any time you're in your car? I know that's true for handguns; I can't see why not a hawk. That, plus "lawful sporting activities", seems to indicate that carrying a hawk any time you're likely to be carrying one--unless you have one tucked in your belt as you walk through the supermarket (don't give me ideas!)--will probably be okay.

In any case, I certainly don't see any requirement to lock up your hawk (or club, etc.) outside the cab. It's legal to concealed-carry a pistol on your person in your car in TX without a license, and the law applying to tomahawks uses similar terminology. Where did you see it written that I have to lock my hawks, clubs, hunting knives, etc. outside the cab?
 
Never saw it written anywhere. Got tossed in jail for a few hours due to a knife being in the cab of my pickup, therefore "readily acessible" according to the officer in charge. He mentioned that if it had been in the bed of the truck or locked in a case in the cab that it would not have been a problem. I was found innocent in court, but court costs are high. Not saying anyone HAS to lock a hawk or knife up. Just saying I'm not willing anymore to put my faith in the common sense of law enforcement. Everyone can have a bad day ya' know. Plus my problem came up about ten years ago so maybe the laws have changed.
 
What I found especially odd was that the guy posting that tomahawks were weapons...period. I know I could probably hammer nails with a handgun if I wanted, but this just seemed totally different and unreasonable to me.
Thinner edge profile bites deeper into the wood, longer handle=more leverage and velocity on impact, lighter overall weight, how can you go wrong? Yes, it just so happens that some of the aforementioned characteristics make the hawk a superior weapon than a handaxe, but they also make it a better tool for my woods hikes, which is what I got the hawks for.
 
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Well, I have a number of period style hawks (none of the newer tacticool stuff), and my camp hatchets work better at splitting wood and other camp chores. That said, I'm pretty sure most native tribes in the west used them primarily as weapons. And I dont think I have ever seen a book on combat/fighting hatchets, however I have seen several books and DVD's dedicated to "Fighting" with the tomahawk. And lets not forget the hawk scenes in Patriot and Last of the Mohicans. I hate to be the bad guy here but tool or weapon is often a perception and not reality.
 
i need to make more tomahawks with little pink koalas and happy faces on them obviously.


i love how people like this "tomahawk is only a weapon guy," who wear blinders in life always think they see the most, because their imagination tells them that they do....

i also love how they are immune to their own rules, as officials.

'nuff to make ya pinch yourself for a reality check.


i guess since my tomahawks skin, chop down trees, make fire ploughs, blow fires into existence, etc. (i.e. - not weapons utilities, therefore not "only weapons") - THEY MUST NOT BE TOMAHAWKS.


from now on, guys, i am making thingies.

thingies with happy faces.

:cool::thumbup:

SSDD.

vec
 
The user defines how it is used. It is a tool that can be used for chopping, competition, and war. I use mine for throwing and chopping. I don't use it as a weapon.
 
aleyn1975 said:
Never saw it written anywhere. Got tossed in jail for a few hours due to a knife being in the cab of my pickup, therefore "readily acessible" according to the officer in charge. He mentioned that if it had been in the bed of the truck or locked in a case in the cab that it would not have been a problem. I was found innocent in court, but court costs are high. Not saying anyone HAS to lock a hawk or knife up. Just saying I'm not willing anymore to put my faith in the common sense of law enforcement. Everyone can have a bad day ya' know. Plus my problem came up about ten years ago so maybe the laws have changed.
Click to expand...


Aleyn, I live in Tx also. Remember a lot of the laws in Tx were written a long time ago. The weapons laws were written when mainly white landowners thought it wasn't a good idea for minorities to carry weapons. I think that is how tomahawk got thrown in there. It was probably never changed. Also it is up to the discretion of the officer if something is a weapon or a tool. How many people drive around with a hammer, a baseball bat, or a golf club? I think it's how you carry it and what you are doing with it. Of course there are some cities that I won't carry a knife into, like San Antonio. Talk about communist knife laws. Be safe ot there, James.
 
Aleyn, I live in Tx also. Remember a lot of the laws in Tx were written a long time ago. The weapons laws were written when mainly white landowners thought it wasn't a good idea for minorities to carry weapons. I think that is how tomahawk got thrown in there. It was probably never changed.
Click to expand...

That, and Reconstruction. Of course, that's just rampant speculation on my part... but the conquered states had to rewrite their state constitutions, and the Second Amendment equivalent in the TX Constitution specifically allows the state to regulate carrying of arms. So perhaps it's not speculation so rampant after all.
 
It seems to me the law in Texas considers the hawk a weapon with legitimate uses as tool. That's why there are those stipulations,
EXCEPTIONS: official;
actor was on own premises; was traveling; engaged in lawful
hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity; security
guard].
So, if I'm on the way to, or participating in legal sporting activity I'm fine. You know what really sucks about these exceptions? It doesn't say I can use one to do actual WORK. Clearing brush can be fun with a hawk but even I'd have to crack a grin if I imagine trying to convince a judge it's a sporting activity.
 
I live in Tx too and last time I checked I was a citizen..I see my fellow countrymen in the local wallyworld all the time with fixed blades in plain sight(usually about 4 inches,like an airforce pilots knife or OT sharpfinger) why cant I carry my V-Tac? it has a mere what.. 2.25 cutting edge? as long as I'm not hiding it under my coat...You guys want to contribute to my legal defense fund? Hell I'd feel pretty safe with most of you in a bank if you had a 44 mag on your leg..as long as it aint pointed at my head!!! (LOL!)
 
Anrkst6973 said:
I live in Tx too and last time I checked I was a citizen..I see my fellow countrymen in the local wallyworld all the time with fixed blades in plain sight(usually about 4 inches,like an airforce pilots knife or OT sharpfinger) why cant I carry my V-Tac? it has a mere what.. 2.25 cutting edge? as long as I'm not hiding it under my coat...You guys want to contribute to my legal defense fund? Hell I'd feel pretty safe with most of you in a bank if you had a 44 mag on your leg..as long as it aint pointed at my head!!! (LOL!)
Click to expand...

your preachin' to the choir here, i reckon, brother. :cool::thumbup:

as far as the government looking out for anyone worth anything - i think that stopped some time before McCarthyism....

vec
 
This will make you think... So I posted on another thread that we should all try to clean up our outdoors when we can, and I will at least cut off all the copper wire and aluminum faces of the appliances that dummies keep tossing out in the woods..So does that make my hawk a "Legitimate Tool" of my profession? (Remember Redd Fox was a "Junkman"!) can I carry it while engaded in a "Legal Sporting pursuit"(like WALKING?) (I'm gonna wind up with the Hawk Gestapo battering down my door arnt I?)
 
I saw this post in knifeforums and it scared the heck out of me. Someone who is considered an expert witness claims tomahawks are not tools, were never intended as tools, and are weapons...
Click to expand...

Chicken...no...egg...no...chicken...
 
IIRC, tomahawks were originally trade hatchets. Guys would bring large numbers of hatchet heads to the frontier to trade with indians who had no steel forging of their own. The heads had round eyes so that they could easily be hafted on sight. I think they were a bit bigger than a typical hawk head came to be later on, but the same general shape. So really, they were tools to begin with that someone discovered could cleave an enemy tribesman's head just as well as firewood. . .

But if you think about it, most weapons, especially hand weapons began their lives as tools.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
IIRC, tomahawks were originally trade hatchets. Guys would bring large numbers of hatchet heads to the frontier to trade with indians who had no steel forging of their own. The heads had round eyes so that they could easily be hafted on sight. I think they were a bit bigger than a typical hawk head came to be later on, but the same general shape. So really, they were tools to begin with that someone discovered could cleave an enemy tribesman's head just as well as firewood. . .

But if you think about it, most weapons, especially hand weapons began their lives as tools.
Click to expand...

You're describing trade hawks, tomahawks were originally stone axes :)
 
"Tomahawk, IIRC (and I may not) was the indian word that was basically used to describe hatchets, not just stone hatchets. "Trade axes" are what white men called them. ;)
 
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