Heat Treat Headach

B

bushcraftbasics

Joined
Sep 16, 2011
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51
i hope i'm not the only one who has read TONS on the subject and understands absolutely NOTHING!!! martiniminiminite, austenittizzle, soaking quenched, thirsting for someone to put this into layman's friggin' terms...hell id even accept English at this point, im so upset i spelled headache wrong...okay i'm done ranting

-dilla
 
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Let me break it down.

1. You heat it up to a specific temperature for a specific amount of time (depends on the steel) = Heat to critical and soak
2. That causes the steel to change states and get all the goodies (carbon) spread around evenly within the steel = Austenite conversion
3. You cool it down fast enough to again cause the steel to change states resulting in it getting hard = Quench resulting in Martensite
4. Now that it's hard, it has a lot of internal stress and may be brittle, so you heat it one more time for a while to relieve stress (how hot depends on your desired final hardness) = Temper

--nathan
 
First, a man named Martin, who lives in Austin, soaks his blade in a salt brine. Then he quenches his thirst with some Gatoraide and then takes a nap on a temper-pedic bed.

You want the blade in the anealed state - very soft. To accomplish this, you heat the blade to critical (it will become nonmagnetic at a certain temp) and then let it cool very slowly in pearlite or ashes, etc. overnight
The slower a steel cools, the softer it will be

And the faster a steel cools, the harder it will be. So grind your soft anealed steel to make your knife
Then harden it. Heat to critical (nonmagnetic) again and this time dunk it in oil. Various oils for various steels. This dunking process is called the quench

At this point it is too hard for anything and very brittle. Think about how very hard ice will crack when you pour hot water on it
You need to soften it a bit to make it a good knife. Hard, but not too hard. To do this you temper it

Put it in an oven at a low temp (400 or so) for an hour. Do this several times (cycles) and it will temper/soften the blade

This is the process for High carbon steels. Low carbon steels won't harden. And Stainless Steels are done slightly differntly.

Hope this helps,
Jason
 
I made this post a while back. I was picking on Sam because...well, because he is a blacksmith...and it is an easy target. Now that he has settled down and has a woinderful gal, all this is past history, but still a good read:


Sam went over to this house to install a gate on the pool. The blond woman at the house was drop dead gorgeous, and wearing the smallest bikini that Sam had ever seen. Sam had barely started putting up the hinges, when she invited him to take a dip with her. Sam blushed and said he didn't have a swimsuit, so she volunteered to swim the same way as he would have to. Sam and the lady jumped right in, and things heated up quickly. As he got her to where he wanter her, they heard ...." Honey, I'm Home"!!!......It was her husband.
Sam had about one second to get both of them out of the pool, get dressed, and get back to hanging that gate. The woman couldn't find her suit, so she laid face down on a chaise, threw a towel over her butt, and started sun tanning. Her husband came out and said, "Geez, babe, take pity on this fool hanging the gate. She said, "What's the big deal? I though you like my tan." .....and dove in the pool.She winked as Sam as she did.
Sam says hanging gates is too stressful and wouldn't likely do it often.

Now, this woman was 1095 steel and a water quench. She got hot quick, and had to be cooled down FAST. If things didn't go right, there was a real chance of things going really badly for Sam. While the looks can be stunning, 1095 is fickle and not for the faint at heart.


The next day Sam had to put burglar bars on the window of a College Co-ed's house. She had a cute pony-tail and was wearing short shorts and a halter. She asked if Sam would like to try out the new sauna with her. After making sure she didn't have a husband , they got in and fairly soon things heated up. Wanting to make sure she was fully ready ,Sam let the Co-ed sit there and sweat for a while. Just when things seemed right, she got a text on her cell phone. It was her mother , and she was coming by in a few minutes to drop some things off. Sam and the gal got out of the sauna, and dried off. He gave her his number, and then went back to putting up the window bars. Her mom was impressed with the security of the bars, and Sam told her he might have to come back and tighten the nuts up in a week or so.

This lady was O-1, it took a little longer to get hot, needs to stay there a while, and had to cool down reasonably fast, but there is no rush. Things are pretty easy with ladies and steel like this as long as you take your time. Nothing fancy, but easy to deal with. Definitely worth trying again.


Well, on Saturday, it was a ornamental lamp post job at a sophisticated woman's mansion.
The classy gal was wearing $700 silk lounging pajamas, and sipping a Jean-Marc XO martini. Sam knew he was really out of his league here, but there is just something about him that the ladies can't resist. Before long she asked Sam to come upstairs, where she wanted to show him something. Now, Sam was no fool, so he asked if her husband or some family member might interrupt things. She said she was a wealthy widow, and would turn on the answering machine. That was all Sam needed to know. He realized that this dame was very different than those he had met during this week. He would have to take his time with her. He started with a slow back massage to warm her up and put her in the proper attitude. Then he increased the heat, using his secret blacksmith techniques, to bring her to a feverish pitch. He took his time in bringing her down slowly, and after a couple cigarettes shared under satin sheets, he put up the lamp post. He plans on doing a lot more work on this estate.

This gal was CPM-S35VN. Classy, expensive, and a lot of work...and totally worth it.
It has to be warmed up and allowed to get in the right condition, then taken far beyond the heating level of the simpler steels, and held at that exact spot for a relatively long time. The cool down can be leisurely,but still requires a lot of special attention. It also needs a more complex tempering .
It takes a lot more to get this type of woman or steel to come to its full potential...but the results are in a different league. Not everyones able to do this type of steel..or woman...but it will surely impress your friends if you can .
 
bladsmth said:
I made this post a while back. I was picking on Sam because...well, because he is a blacksmith...and it is an easy target. Now that he has settled down and has a woinderful gal, all this is past history, but still a good read:


Sam went over to this house to install a gate on the pool. The blond woman at the house was drop dead gorgeous, and wearing the smallest bikini that Sam had ever seen. Sam had barely started putting up the hinges, when she invited him to take a dip with her. Sam blushed and said he didn't have a swimsuit, so she volunteered to swim the same way as he would have to. Sam and the lady jumped right in, and things heated up quickly. As he got her to where he wanter her, they heard ...." Honey, I'm Home"!!!......It was her husband.
Sam had about one second to get both of them out of the pool, get dressed, and get back to hanging that gate. The woman couldn't find her suit, so she laid face down on a chaise, threw a towel over her butt, and started sun tanning. Her husband came out and said, "Geez, babe, take pity on this fool hanging the gate. She said, "What's the big deal? I though you like my tan." .....and dove in the pool.She winked as Sam as she did.
Sam says hanging gates is too stressful and wouldn't likely do it often.

Now, this woman was 1095 steel and a water quench. She got hot quick, and had to be cooled down FAST. If things didn't go right, there was a real chance of things going really badly for Sam. While the looks can be stunning, 1095 is fickle and not for the faint at heart.


The next day Sam had to put burglar bars on the window of a College Co-ed's house. She had a cute pony-tail and was wearing short shorts and a halter. She asked if Sam would like to try out the new sauna with her. After making sure she didn't have a husband , they got in and fairly soon things heated up. Wanting to make sure she was fully ready ,Sam let the Co-ed sit there and sweat for a while. Just when things seemed right, she got a text on her cell phone. It was her mother , and she was coming by in a few minutes to drop some things off. Sam and the gal got out of the sauna, and dried off. He gave her his number, and then went back to putting up the window bars. Her mom was impressed with the security of the bars, and Sam told her he might have to come back and tighten the nuts up in a week or so.

This lady was O-1, it took a little longer to get hot, needs to stay there a while, and had to cool down reasonably fast, but there is no rush. Things are pretty easy with ladies and steel like this as long as you take your time. Nothing fancy, but easy to deal with. Definitely worth trying again.


Well, on Saturday, it was a ornamental lamp post job at a sophisticated woman's mansion.
The classy gal was wearing $700 silk lounging pajamas, and sipping a Jean-Marc XO martini. Sam knew he was really out of his league here, but there is just something about him that the ladies can't resist. Before long she asked Sam to come upstairs, where she wanted to show him something. Now, Sam was no fool, so he asked if her husband or some family member might interrupt things. She said she was a wealthy widow, and would turn on the answering machine. That was all Sam needed to know. He realized that this dame was very different than those he had met during this week. He would have to take his time with her. He started with a slow back massage to warm her up and put her in the proper attitude. Then he increased the heat, using his secret blacksmith techniques, to bring her to a feverish pitch. He took his time in bringing her down slowly, and after a couple cigarettes shared under satin sheets, he put up the lamp post. He plans on doing a lot more work on this estate.

This gal was CPM-S35VN. Classy, expensive, and a lot of work...and totally worth it.
It has to be warmed up and allowed to get in the right condition, then taken far beyond the heating level of the simpler steels, and held at that exact spot for a relatively long time. The cool down can be leisurely,but still requires a lot of special attention. It also needs a more complex tempering .
It takes a lot more to get this type of woman or steel to come to its full potential...but the results are in a different league. Not everyones able to do this type of steel..or woman...but it will surely impress your friends if you can .
Click to expand...

that my friend, is awesome...thank you!
 
thanks guys, this is a big help. thegeeks link is great! thank you kindly sir for that gem! at least now i know how to envision the different states of steel transformation thru-out the heating process...sort of ;)
 
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Sam never did share those customer's contacts. I asked.
The terminology of metallurgy helps in learning the science of heat treating, but men were doing this long before the big words and the guys they are named after were around. The process of heat treating is relatively simple, understanding everything that happens, or can happen, while you are doing it is another story and dosen't exactly read like a novel. I am familiar with the headache, you just gotta take smaller bites of that part and get hands on in the meantime.
 
thats what im finding...i just dont have a forge, or any "real" equipment...i filed my first knife by hand a couple weeks ago out of 1084 and did a "down and dirty" heat treat in my fire pit, checked until non-magnetic and quenched in warm veggie oil...tempered in the oven at 300 for a couple hours...sharp as hell, seems to hold an edge well, but being my first knife im a little attached to it and could never do a destruction test! i am just trying to better understand the process so i can assume that i have a good product without having to destroy my blades!
 
dilla
A feel your pain brother. The information on metallurgy and heat treating is very difficult for me to wrap the point of my head around. I end up reading very slowly, even word for word sometimes, to make sure I understand what is being said. Then it disappears from my memory and I have to start all over again. AAAAARRRRRGGGGGG!!!!!!!

That said, I also find it fascinating and I WANT to know and understand what's going on that I can't see when I'm playing with fire and steel. In addition to major memory dumps, just when I think I understand what's going on I learn that it's not as simple as I thought. A new form of steel (bainite?) pops up, exceptions to the rule are make, debates over soak or no soak, etc, etc, etc, ad infinitum. Sometimes I wish I would have been born smart instead of so doggone good looking and wealthy.;-)

- Paul Meske
 
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