Heat Treat in Modern Knives

[Confederate]

Since heat treat is such an important part of the blade making process, I was wondering what the reputations of the various makers are. For example, BUCK has a great reputation because Paul Bos does theirs. CRKT is said by some to run its steel soft.

But what are the reputations of other companies, like KERSHAW, BENCHMADE, SPYDERCO and COLD STEEL? These companies all have good reputations, though I suspect all compnies have their occasional lemon. CRKTs, I've noticed, seem to vary. (Today I broke out a titanium M16-14 that cut better and sharpened better than some of my other CRKT AUS8s. I haven't seen the same sort of variances in other brands, though they may very well exist. And for all the CUSSING and DISCUSSING that goes on about COLD STEEL, I've found their knives to be consistently good.)

Finally, what kind of heat treat, if any, do cheap Chinese brands like M-TECH normally have? Are they air quenched or water quenched?

 

[Boats]

The only bad HT I ever had was a Becker Crewman that somehow had a soft tip.

Never a problem with Buck, Benchmade, or Spyderco. Ka-Bar seems to be spot on. Ontario is reportedly hit or miss on HT, but I have three perfectly fine RATs from them.

I have never seen a CRKT I wanted, so I don't know about their HT issues.

 

[cutter17]

I've never had a problem with the HT on a Kershaw or a Benchmade. Don't own the other 2 brands but about all I hear of Spyderco is positive so I suspect they have an excellent HT, don't really know about Cold Steel. I've heard the same about CRK&T running steels a little softer so that they will sharpen up readily. I do remember reading that BM had chipping problems when they first started using S30V, but not sure if it was related to the HT or the blade finishing process.

 

[Keith_H]

I think that there is no excuse for a bad heat treat on a production knife. It is an exact science and with the right temps it should be perfect.

The method depends on the steel, so i think that most stainless steels are air quenched, and most carbon steels are oil quench, im not sure because i dont need to know how to HT stainless.

 

[Confederate]

I agree, Keith. It's not like you need much more than a thermostat and a timer. Seems like almost everyone's cryo-quenching these days and AUS8 already sharpens just fine at an RC of 59, so I don't see any reason to run it soft, either. As far as Cold Steel goes, if you can get beyond the hype and razzle-dazzle, their knives really are some of the sharpest I've seen. Just opened a 5-inch Voyager today and, gad, the blade was just a little less sharp than a light saber. Beautifully polished, too. (I'm really getting to hate bead blasted blades.) Buck also puts a nice mirror polish on its blades, too.

I've never had any heat treat problems with Cold Steel, nor have I heard of any problems with any of the other major manufacturers, except CRKT. In fact, don't let this get around, but I've actually purchased a few Smith & Wesson knives that have not only held their edges quite well, but resharpened quickly and easily. Go figure.

Regarding cheap Chinese knives, I don't know. I don't use them enough to tell. I have an M-Tech or two in a drawer somewhere. I may get around to checking them out one of these days. I can tell you that one of them cuts paper without ripping it, something several of my CRKTs won't do. (They'll cut halfway down, then rip...and that's ordinary paper!)

 

[superc]

I can't believe that after all this time there is still someone here who doesn't realize Cold Steel manufactures nothing. CS sells products made by jobbers in other countries and the quality varies from jobber to jobber.

 

[shecky]

I can't believe that after all this time there is still someone here who doesn't realize Cold Steel manufactures nothing.

It's not clear that this is relevant to anything.

CS sells products made by jobbers in other countries and the quality varies from jobber to jobber.

Manufacturers who don't use jobbers at least to some extent are in the minority, it seems. Yet, there is no real correlation between quality and using various jobbers. The better correlation would be between quality and cost. If you want to sell a $300 knife, it doesn't matter if it's built under the same roof that makes $10 knives, as long as the quality is there.

 

[Confederate]

I agree. Besides, all I'm saying is that Cold Steel products (regardless of who makes them) are generally regarded as being very good for the money. Very few users here complain about poor heat treat in regard to CS products. As a consumer, all I know is that when I buy a Cold Steel knife, it comes out of the box extremely sharp, it maintains its edge for a respectable amount of time, and it locks up solid and is completely reliable...and who could ask for more?

If CS knives are indeed made by other jobbers, I say they should crank up and produce more knives, because you can't knock success.

 

[godot]

I agree. Besides, all I'm saying is that Cold Steel products (regardless of who makes them) are generally regarded as being very good for the money.

They seem very expensive to me. An extreme example is their "Military Classic" model which looks like a Randall Model 1. The CS catalog suggests a price of $319.99.
The Randall catalog prices a real Model 1 at $330, only $10 more.
The CS doesn't seem like a good value to me.

 

[3Guardsmen]

They seem very expensive to me. An extreme example is their "Military Classic" model which looks like a Randall Model 1. The CS catalog suggests a price of $319.99.
The Randall catalog prices a real Model 1 at $330, only $10 more.

Well, I'm certainly not trying to defend CS here, but if you were to order the Cold Steel R1 Military Classic, I'm guessing that it wouldn't take you near half of a decade to get it into your hands. The Randall, ordered directly from them, woudn't be coming anytime soon.

The CS doesn't seem like a good value to me.

In my opinion it's not, especially when you throw something like this in the mix:
http://www.newgraham.com/detail.aspx?ID=4921

Regards,
3G

 

[Mick R.]

Well, I'm certainly not trying to defend CS here, but if you were to order the Cold Steel R1 Military Classic, I'm guessing that it wouldn't take you near half of a decade to get it into your hands. The Randall, ordered directly from them, woudn't be coming anytime soon.



In my opinion it's not, especially when you throw something like this in the mix:
http://www.newgraham.com/detail.aspx?ID=4921

Regards,
3G

Agree on the CS Knives - definitely overpriced. For less than what the CS Military Cassic sells for a person can snag a Bark River Socom 7 Fighter with a killer stag handle and better steel.

 

[Smash05]

Can we get back on subject! Benchmade seems to have their heat treat spot on. I have bought a couple AUS8 blades from them as gifts for family, worked out excellently, they are running them at a proper RC 59-60 I think. All my spyderco knives are wicked as well. Believe it or not, whatever vendor hardened the AUS8 on my Camillus Sizzle did a great job. I will agree the CRKT runs it soft, but so does Victorinox and I never much minded that - they sharpen up great. Both my Ontario's are fine in that regard as well, as are my Ka Bars. I would think that getting a knife with a poor heat treat would be the exception.

 

[Jeff Clark]

It is not trivial to heat treat production knives. They are done in large batches and getting the whole lot up to the right temperatures for the right time and quenching them all at the right speed takes some special equipment and management. You can't send knives to a company that heat treats heavier tooling and expect them to handle it correctly.

 

[Confederate]

I've been a bit unhappy with CRKT lately, but it's more likely the blade grinds that are the issue rather than the steel/heat treat. As for the Cold Steel offerings, I don't believe CS's San Mai steel is any more than a pricey gimmick. So regarding my comments, they don't include San Mai, which is NOT a premium steel, but a medium grade steel laminated with a lower grade steel.

Cold Steel's mainstrem knives are quite good, though.