Heat treat oven / kiln under bench?

C_Claycomb

C_Claycomb

Joined
Dec 11, 2000
Messages
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I am thinking about using some savings to buy a Paragon HT oven while those savings still have some purchasing power. My workshop is small and it isn't easy to see where an oven could go on the upper level of a bench. There is more scope on the lower shelf of a couple of my benches. I am still young enough that squatting down to access is still possible.

Is this viable?

I was thinking about putting it where the mini-forge is stored (I will most likely get rid of the forge) after clearing some space to the right. Would need a door with side hinges rather than bottom, I think.


Thanks

Chris
 
I would put it on a rolling cart (HF shop cart or welders' cart). That way it can be rolled away when not in use and rolled to where you will be doing the HT when needed. You can store that mini-forge, supplies, and other tools on the lower shelves of the cart.
 
Thanks Stacy,

😄
If I thought I had space for a wheeled cart I wouldn't be asking about putting it under a bench ;)

My work space is 161 inches x 113 inches, (13'5" x 9'5"). It doesn't feel like there is anywhere to wheel something "away", its either in the middle of the space and constantly in the way, or against a wall, in which case it is never more than a couple paces from the workbench.

In the spring of 2020 I measured the shop, drew it to scale, measured all the benches, carts and tools that take space, cut them out of graph paper and spent several weeks pushing them around trying to figure how I would fit a 14" bandsaw on a mobile trolley into the shop. Then more recently I have been at it again to accommodate a Reeder grinder and SGA. There might be a way to coax some more space out of the place, maybe by building some other benches with drawers, in place of the office drawer units, but it feels right now like I have hit maximum tool capacity and the only places that can be readily opened up are under benches, and then only by disposing of things, not just rearranging them. :(




I am open to other suggestions. I had thought about asking folk here for workshop layout ideas, but everyone seems to have so much space, I wasn't sure they would know what to say when shown such a little workshop ;) . If all I did was knife making it would be a lot easier, but I do enough woodwork that I need to keep my 30x60 bench clear of heavy tools. I had the router and computer on there for a year and it sucked!

Anyway, regarding kiln placement, what I was hoping to hear was whether anyone had put one on a lower shelf, or if anyone thought that doing so would be dangerous. Wouldn't necessarily be a permanent home, maybe only long enough for me to push graph paper around some more.

Cheers

Chris
 
I'd clear everything off of the shelf that I didn't want to get burned or melted. I'm not sure if Evenheat lists any clearance requirements for combustibles, but you'd probably be ok if you're careful.
 
You have enough space. I have two ovens and one of these is placed as you intend to place it, under the work table. It goes without saying that you must be careful not to cover any slits on the outside of the oven, you must pay great attention when the oven is in use, not to use flammable liquids near the oven and more generally keep anything flammable away. You also have to consider that the position is undoubtedly uncomfortable, but it is something you get used to.
 
There are ways to maximize the inside space use of a tiny shop. My first shop (I still use it) is 7' by 7'. I put up a 10X20 party tent (top only) to work under outside. shortly later, I replaced the tent with an 8"X8' open smithy shed roof extension off the side of the enclosed shop. There are benches in a "U" around the smithy perimeter for working outside. The forge, anvil, big vise, 100# propane tank, and other things that could stay outside are all permanently mounted in the smithy. I have a drywall bucket over the regulator and valve on the propane tank when not in use. The anvil, forge, and vise have small BBQ covers over them. I quickly needed more storage space and a HT oven, so I built a 6'X8' storage shed with a 48" wide door. I roll several carts in there with casting equipment, 2 HT ovens, a salt pot, and a welding cart. There are shelves along the back side that hold bins of supplies and a rack by the door for steel. I built a simple deck between the storage shed, smithy, and enclosed shop door so things can roll around easily.
Eventually, I added another storage building for other stuff. Then I built the 20X40 shop. It is still too small ;).

In your shop:
Consider that a cart can sit anywhere in the shop when you are not working in there. When you come to work on knives, roll it out the door and it isn't in the way of anything. You can also do the HT with the oven/cart outside making the shop a much more comfortable and safer place during HT. My oven is on a rolling cart and the HT is done outside on the shop deck, or under the smithy roof.

If the outside is rougher ground (grass, dirt, gravel) consider making the cart "off road" by putting larger tires on it. The Harbor Freight 8" and 10" Haul-Master pneumatic tire caster units are cheap and easily can replace the small solid casters on a HF shop cart. Of course, you can build your own custom "mobile bench" cart and use those wheels, too.

Another option is to move things outside that don't really need to be inside. That vise table does not appear to have any other function besides the vise. Mount the vise outside the shop on a solid post that is cemented in the ground. Put a smoker BBQ cover or drywall bucket over it when not in use. A forge can be placed outside the same way, and covered with a BBQ cover when not in use. Placing an awning extension on the front of the shop will keep these things out of the direct rain if you need to use them during inclement weather.

Here is a post I made about 7 years ago on placing things on carts;
It is a good idea to put most shop equipment that is not used daily on mobile carts. this has two functions.
1) is that they can be moved where you need them and then stored in a corner when not in use.
2) is that they can be rolled outside the shop on a clear day and used in the fresh open air.

The welders carts and shop carts from HF, Northern, etc., are great for these jobs. Build the forge right on the cart top. Put Rockwell testers, sharpening setups, quench tanks, etc. on carts. The supplies for that tool can be stored on the shelves and bottom. These carts are always on sale for a very low price. the welders carts are surprisingly sturdy, and can be modified in assembly to make the top level and arrange the shelves differently.

A welders cart with two quench tanks strapped where the gas bottles would go will allow having a fast and slow oil availability. Put the gloves, tongs, and extra oil jugs on the shelves. Put fire bricks on the top ( it has a lip to keep them in place) and use it to set hot blades on.

An anvil can be made portable by putting it on a base with two 1.5" pipe sleeves on the side. When moving it, slide a "wheelbarrow" rig in the pipes. It is just a 10-12" wheel mounted between two 1" pipes and bent to fit through the 1.5" pipes. A couple clamps or pins keep the anvil from sliding too far forward. Pick it up by the handle ends and roll it out to the smithy like a barrow full of dirt. Even a 200#er can safely and easily be moved this way. Place the anvil as far forward toward the wheel as possible to maximize mechanical advantage.

Garden carts, like the one Pepin used (see photos below), are good for hauling a couple hundred pounds of tools and steel out to the smithy...and putting it in the garage or shed at night.

Think of all the tools that could be cart mounted. If the tool needs to be solid in use, just clamp the cart against the workbench or a 4X4" post set in concrete if working outside.
Forges of all types
HT ovens
quench tanks
salt pots
Bench top drill presses
grinders
sanders
testers
sharpeners
small band saws
vises
clamping jigs
filing jigs
Leather work stations
Photos boxes and light units
A pimped out cooler and snack box ( keeps the bugs and grinding grit off your brewskies and Fritos.

One maker here had no space for a forge so he wemnt mobile. Here is Pepin's mobile smithy:
1647775110056.png1647775131763.png
 
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I made my own electric heat treat oven and it's super insulated. I made it from reusing fire bricks from a old burnt out ceramic kiln. The old kiln actually had a 2" thick insulation board that was on the outside of the soft fire bricks on all sides and back. So I made my sheet metal cabinet out of a furnace plenum kit and made it big enough that the 2" insulation board encapsulates the fire brick. It gets up to temp of 1975 within 35 minutes and I can place my hand of the outside of the kiln hours after use. I still have it on top of a wooden bench but spaced up off the wooden bench top by left over 2" insulation boards. My door is stickily fire brick and it gets to hot to touch with minutes. I believe one heat treat furnace manufacture offers a super insulated model per request at a cost.

With that said IF your shelving is made of wood like mine I'd still be hesitant using it on the shelve below. Wood has a flash point to become combustible. If heated repeatedly for a long period of time, which I seriously doubt you'd do as a hobbyist, the flash point lowers on the surrounding wood to where it ignites easier.

Maybe the best scenario is to cut out and remove a section of your shelving so a metal roll away cart holding your heat treat oven can be pulled out and used free standing away from any combustible material.

 
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I recall reading that Evenheat recommends 36" of clearance above the oven. I left my heat resistant gloves on top of the oven by mistake last time I fired it up and they started to smoke. My shop is a little smaller than yours but I don't have as much stuff, the oven takes up valuable space but it's a valuable tool
 
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