Heat Treat question: big vs small

Revolverrodger

Revolverrodger

Joined
Jul 23, 2007
Messages
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I was wondering if survive was using a on size fits all for CPM 3V heat treat ?
I can't find the RC hardness for the GSO 8 but I hope it's not 60-61... In a blade of that size I prefer toughness over edge holding (chopping / battoning etc)
Any more info on the RC hardness for the smaller vs larger blades ?
 
Someone who actually knows will probably chime in, but for now I'll embark on some copy/pasting... I wish we could merge the Facebook group and our forum into a United bladefaceforumbook :p

Guy-It is a low temper process rather than tempering high like we used to. I'll give a better run down in a bit, after I've spoken to Peters' Heat Treating a bit. I don't know how much I should be saying regarding the process, so I want to have a word with them first.
A bit more resilient blade at a higher hardness(60-61Rc), better edge stability, improved edge retention and slightly enhanced corrosion resistance.
FB user-I'm guessing that will be on only smaller blades though.
Guy-Nope, most blades will come in right around 60.5Rc, all will be at least 60Rc. The CPM-3V steel is doing great at that hardness, no matter the blade size.
 
Thanks buddy, I'm not really on facebook LOL
I'm a bit concerned about a large 60RC blade.
Maybe the survive team could post some hard use videos of the larger blades with the new HT...
 
Revolver, 3V isn't 1095, and I've heard of hard use knives in 3V at 62 HRC without problems.
Edge holding and toughness at the same time with a lack of brittle failure is the beauty of 3V.
 
No problem, friend. I'll continue to try bridging the gap between our 2 enthusiastic worlds.

I don't have the real experience with the steels or HT, but if Guy likes it then it must be above and beyond what others are doing. That's how he rolls :thumbup:
 
Usually the harder the RC the lower the toughness
55RC cpm3v should be much tougher than 60 RC cpm3v and should be less prone to chipping
 
I have the same understanding from my limited research, but I can't imagine Guy would go after an idea if he didn't research and test it exhaustively. Past experience shows he does what he thinks is absolutely the best way and only changes if he finds something better than the current best. Ok ok, I'm just rambling at this point with out any facts..........
 
From my understanding it was a slightly different heat treatment to reach the 60-61Rc which by chance gave slightly different properties.
 
Revolverrodger said:
I was wondering if survive was using a on size fits all for CPM 3V heat treat ?
I can't find the RC hardness for the GSO 8 but I hope it's not 60-61... In a blade of that size I prefer toughness over edge holding (chopping / battoning etc)
Any more info on the RC hardness for the smaller vs larger blades ?
Click to expand...

The aim hardness is 60-60.5Rc but since a few degrees can affect the hardness a little bit, I am going to be listing the hardness at 60-61Rc. Trust me, the new protocol is PLENTY tough enough at that hardness. I've recently been exhaustively beating on one of Dan Keffeler's 20" CPM-3V swords with the same heat treat. I've been beating on my smaller blades with no reserve and we'll soon be releasing a handful of these "beta" GSO-4.1s into the world to get some more direct user feedback. With the lower tempering temperature the steel is much more resilient, even at the slightly higher hardness. It sharpens up nice, holds a great edge, is really tough, and from what I can see so far with my blade sitting outside, also has much better corrosion resistance. There is really no reason at all to be worried.
 
chiral.grolim said:
Sounds to me like the CPM-20CV may become obsolete... ?
Click to expand...

We are messing around with the 20CV heat treat as well, trying to maximize the corrosion resistance and edge retention. That is still a work in progress. I've honestly been asking myself the same question though but have been waiting to get some user feedback from these beta GSO-4.1 blades before making any final decisions on that.
 
chiral.grolim said:
Sounds to me like the CPM-20CV may become obsolete... ?
Click to expand...
In my obinion, the 3V has already made the 20CV obsolete. Clearly the 3V in the historical heat treat is not nearly as corrosive resistant as the 20CV, but the toughness of the 3V and other attributes makes it my favorite, and the only steel I now order I'm my S! knives. In my environment, keeping my 3V rust free has not been very difficult with minimal maintenance. If this heat treatment works to improve this attribute, than that's gravy.
 
My 5.1 is my first 3v blade, but so far so good. But I have only had rust on my 1095 pocket folders. And that's sweating on them 10-16 hours a day. And only getting a good cleaning once a week. My edc blades typically get whipped down ever afternoon when I get off.
 
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