Heat Treating Harbor Freight Files? anyone know what kind of steel they are?

hathegkla

hathegkla

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Feb 3, 2010
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I've already ordered some 1075/1085 and will be working with that soon but for now I have a couple knives I've forged out of cheap Harbor Freight Files made by "Pittsburgh" in India. I was wondering what temperature to anneal them at as I don't want these blades to be brittle.
 
My guess is that they are case hardened lower carbon steel and won't harden appreciably enough to make a good knife.

--nathan
 
silver_pilate said:
My guess is that they are case hardened lower carbon steel and won't harden appreciably enough to make a good knife.

--nathan
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really? a file made from low carbon steel? it seems to get pretty hard and very brittle after quenching (I shattered the tip with a hammer after forging and hardening). we've done a couple trials with it and they get hard enough so a real quality file won't bite into them at all. I figured they were probably low quality high carbon steel or some strange alloy. my second go I tried tempering it at 400f for a few hours and the thing still snapped in half when I tried to flex it.
 
Well, it's just a guess on my part, but cheaper files are generally case hardened vs higher quality files that are through hardened high-carbon steel. Quality files are made of something like 1095 or W1 usually, though the makup varies by manufacturer.

Cut a piece off the end of one of the files and etch it in acid. If there is a dark ring comprising the outside of the steel cross section and a lighter center, it's probably case hardened. If it etches dark across the entire cross section, maybe you've got a chance.

--nathan
 
Acually, India has pretty strict controls on steel, from what I have been reading. What the natives may do with it, is anybodys guess. Treat your Indian file blade like a hypereutectic 10xx, and see how it works. My guess would be they are likely an Indian version of 1095.
 
Just because it snaps when you bend it doesn't mean it's brittle. Most commercial knives would snap if you clamp it to a vise and bend, especially if it is thick. Instead, put an edge on it and cut with it. If it's chippy, then temper higher.

It could be 1095, though some files have been tested to have carbon amounts over 1.5%, so it could be some obscure steel.
 
cool, thanks for the info. I'm thinking it must have a very high carbon content, it broke so easily after annealing it at 400 by just pressing the tip on the table with my hand that I think I may have ended up with some graphite around the grain boundaries or something else horrible like that. I could try the acid test but all I had left of them have been forged already . I think I might wait to heat treat the 2 other knives I made and just treat it like 1095. my father is giving me his old glass furnace so I should be able to get a more accurate heat treat next time around.

I'm not really expecting too much from these, they were mostly just inexpensive forging practice. I've got some much better stuff on the way.
 
I'm not really expecting too much from these, they were mostly just inexpensive forging practice. I've got some much better stuff on the way.
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I can get old American steel files from the flea market for like $1ea. Not that "American steel" is any more specific than "Indian steel", to my ignorance.

anyway, I found lots of practice stuff at the tool purveyor in the local flea market.

-Daizee
 
i dunno what they're made of, but i tried to forge one a while back and it crumbled under my hammer. literally crumbled.
 
Thing is India steel is here to stay. Probably does not apply to tool steel, but, the Indian steel tycoon Lakshmi Mittal controls over 75% of the worlds steel production, despite having taken a serious hit as the demand for steel dropped with last years world wide economic dump. Most American steel mills are as modern as the model T
 
Thought I would resurrect this one because I have a file that's from India and I wonder if it will be any good for making a knife out of. I started off thinking it would just be good to practice on but after annealing it and going through several hacksaw blades and grinding for hours I'm beginning to hope that it could be decent metal. Has anyone ever made a good knife out of and Indian file?
 
How can you ask that question after reading this post?

It might be good steel it might be crap steel. Unless you know EXACTLY what kind of steel it is, your heat treat will be hit and miss. No one here will know what kind of steel is in your "file from India".

If you want to use it as a knife then grind it to shape, put an edge on it and use it. If it keeps an edge then you have a good knife. If it doesn't then you have a letter opener. Be careful grinding or you will lose your temper. Read up on Heat Treating if you aren't sure what temper is.
 
jawilder said:
How can you ask that question after reading this post?
.
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I asked that question because this post is well over a year old. I wonder if anyone has learned anything else that would apply. By resurrecting this older thread I am acknowledging that I read it and understand it. I was hopeful that more information regarding this subject would be available.
 
I would say that most makers with at least a years worth of experience won't waste time making a knife from a file. There are sure to be exceptions, and those who swear that a file is the best steel you can get....but you won't find a file knife for sale by many skilled makers.

FWIW, a piece of 1030 will shatter if heated to 1500F and quenched. I accidentally break mild steel decorative forgings all the time by bending them after forging and cooling in the slack tub. It only takes a little carbon to make the steel brittle. The edge of a 1030 knife ,however, will never hold up to use. File knives may appear to get hard, but pearlite will skate a file.
 
I have a set of these files too, but I think I'll just actually order a decent piece of steel to use for my first knife. I only really need like 7" of it...for $10 you can get 48" of 1084 though...so why mess around? I'm thinking that will be my summer project. Make a little dagger. The grinds are what worry me the most, but I'll probably do them by hand.
 
KaosX said:
...for $10 you can get 48" of 1084 though...so why mess around?
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You got it. I've made a few Nicholson and Simmonds file knives and probably will again (hate to throw out old files :D), but I do prefer new fresh steel that I know what the heck it really is.
 
bladsmth said:
I would say that most makers with at least a years worth of experience won't waste time making a knife from a file. There are sure to be exceptions, and those who swear that a file is the best steel you can get....but you won't find a file knife for sale by many skilled makers.

FWIW, a piece of 1030 will shatter if heated to 1500F and quenched. I accidentally break mild steel decorative forgings all the time by bending them after forging and cooling in the slack tub. It only takes a little carbon to make the steel brittle. The edge of a 1030 knife ,however, will never hold up to use. File knives may appear to get hard, but pearlite will skate a file.
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Point taken big daddy. I'm ordering steel. I will just chalk this one up to practice. Thanks!
 
Props to Matt Bower for having a bunch of junkyard steels tested..This is one of them.
•Cheapo, made-in-India, Harbor Freight bastard file:
C:1.3 | Mn: 0.34 | P:0.015 | S:0.009 | Si:0.24 | Cu:0.01 | Cr:0.62 | Mo:0.005 | Ni:0.02 | Sn: 0.003 | V: - | Nb:0.010
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ive heat treated a lot of files in my day. Knives and tomahawk bits. They get screaming hard out of the quench and can break before the temper on thier own. Harden in oil and Run to the oven. No less than *475 in most cases. Ive got the specs from about 4 different brands of files and they all have at least 1.2% carbon, well north of 1095. If you forge one much past a high orange its likely to crumble under the hammer.
 
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That stuff doesn't look half bad for a knife. If one had enough of them to make working up a HT procedure worth while, they'd make excellent light use cutting/slicing knives. A LOT of experience forging or very good temperature control would be needed to keep from ruining a few.
 
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