Heat Treatment Reference Work?

Kalindras

Kalindras

Joined
Aug 24, 1999
Messages
933
Hey, all...as I near completion on my forge, one of the main things I'm looking forward to is having the ability to heat-treat my own blades, since it seems like HT is one of the major skills of a bladesmith. However, as I've been looking about, here and elsewhere, I haven't been able to find a good, collected reference on HT of the various steels of the trade.

Now, I'm a bit slow on things like this, and I find it helps immensely for me to have a big book sitting, somewhere in the shop, with big, brightly-coloured pictures, simple instructions (in Crayon, if possible) in small words, and pointed at the average third-grader who, for reasons unknown, has chosen to heat treat the various alloys of Steel. ;)

Does such a beast exist? A machinist's reference, maybe? Something? Anything? Does ANSI publish a collected reference, and if so, where can it be had (and will I have to hock my kid to acquire a copy?!?)

Thanks for anything you can provide!

:D

Kal
 
From what I know about heat treat (I've not tried myself yet) learning how to heat treat is like learning how to put the proper english on a pool table shot. It's all feel and experience.

jmx
 
Ksl; a whole lot to cover in a reply. If you will specify what steel you intend to use I'm sure some smiths will tell you how they do it. Write em down in crayon or whatever and make up your own note book. Keep notes on all details on ht and testing of that blade. Eventually you will have a book full of data that is invaluable. m
 
Like M said. Most people have their favorite steel that works for them. Makers here will give you their test results for them if you ask. Just start asking questions on several different steels and write down the times and temps ect. When your book is done I will buy the first copy.
 
Dang, I's afraid y'all were gonna say that.

I guess, to narrow down my original question, what I'm looking for is HT data on tempering the common blade steels (ATS-34, 5160, 52100, etc.). It seems like, as far as the actual hardening is concerned, you basically take it up to non-magnetic temp, whatever steel it is, then quench it in sand, kitty litter, oil, bat's blood, or what-have-you (again, according to its type--am I jumping ahead and conglomerating steps, here?). Then, once it's all nice and cooled, you heat it back up to a specific temperature (THIS is the info I'm looking for), and leave it for (everybody together, now!) a specified period of time to draw the temper back. Basically, I've seen temperatures here and there (there are a lot of them in Hrisoulas' book) and I've seen temperature/colour correlations for some of it, but I've not found any document/book/clay tablet that brings it all together in one place. Since I lack a thermocouple/pyrometer for the forge, I think a lot of my work is going to be done by colour. I'm guessing I just need to hook up with a local old-timer to get some practice on judging the temps...

I'm about to write a reference work for this, aren't I??? Hmmm...my momman always said you had to create a need and then fill it (or was that my crack-dealer?!?)...that, and life is like a box of choc'lits...it'll melt on the dashboard during the summer...

Kal

BTW, thanks for all the responses, guys!
 
McMaster-Carr has heat treat info (temps vs. R/C#s, soaking times) on their web site. Search for 'tool steel' and drill down for the h/t info.

They also have fairly good prices on some types of steel, and stock everything from 01 to 440V.

Larry
 
Hi, there's a monster book called Key to Steel that cross references almost all types of steel worldwide and includes usage and heat treating information for a bunch of them. The book is updated everry 3 years and one is out for 2001. I have the 1998 edition and it's really super. Book is in 3 languages, german english and french. Cost is a bit steep but I think it's worth it. The publisherr has a website under: www.stahlschluessel.de/
 
Kal: The best clearly written, practical guide to heat treating is a book called "Heat Treatment, Selection and Application of Tool Steels", by Bill Bryson

You can purchase this book at
www.hansergardner.com

It's about the best $30 you can spend, if you want to learn about heat treat.

Bill's book, "Cryogenics", is great, too.

RJ Martin
 
Hi, I second RJ Martin's reply. I forgot to mention Mr. Bryson's book, which is really super. He's also very nice about asking questions if you email him.
 
Kal,

I don't want to sound like an expert because by far I'm not, but I've found that there is no set rules for time and temps for each steel that I've worked with ( 1095,L-6,5160,52100 & some 1060-1090 welded cable. I start out at 350 for draw temps and work up, checking the cutting edge with the brass rod until I find the best temp for that particular steel. So many varibles play into the best drawing
temps, was it forged or ground, type of quenchant, quenchant temp, etc, etc.
I was using a patrticular steel and quenching in ATF, in order for it to pass the brass rod I had to draw at 450, I changed to a slower quenchant and the draw temp dropped to 375. I've found that the only draw temp guarntees is there is none, and that we all have to work out the best temps for our own techiques and how we each work the steel. I could tell you what works for me but it might be to high or low for you.
Someone said that knifemakers wear many hats, and that is the truth if I've ever heard it. Just experiment, have fun and keep real good records and you'll have you own set of draw temps and times that work best for you. ;)

Bill
 
The Heat Treater's Guide is the king of books.
Prepare to lay out two hundred bones used for one.
I have it but aquired the confidence I have with testing, testing, testing.
If you want confidence in your work, when your starting out you should be bending, flexing, dropping, breaking the first twenty or so (crudely finished and profiled) blades you make and about one in ten from there after.
Use your money for coal, propane, steel instead.
Ed
 
Especially you, RJ...I think that's what I'm looking for--info on where to start.

Since I finally got my burner in (and BOY, it's a beaut!!!), I'm about a step and a half away from getting it in gear (gotta get a hose and a reg, and then I'M UP!!). While I realize that HT is more of an art than a science, many times, I just need some training wheels to use as a start-point. I think that the book RJ mentioned will do nicely for that.

I'd love to get that other manual, the $200+, one, but realistically, I can't justify it. To speak the plain truth, I'm just a hobbyist (and a poor one at that), so if I'm gonna sink $200 in, it'll be either in tools or supplies.

Thanks, though, to everyone who chimed in--it's great to have options, and I always benefit from the experience of those who share!!

:D

Kal
 
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