Heated Water as Effective as Parks #50?

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reedje777

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Sep 27, 2011
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So, I've been doing some research on the boards for heat treating high speed quench steels like 1095. Everybody agrees that they need either a high speed oil like Parks #50, Houghton K or water or brine. I can't afford high speed quench oil right now. So that leaves me with water.

The inherent danger with water or brine is cracking your steel and losing your hard work. I've also heard that one way to slow the high speed of the water a bit is to heat it some. Is there a magic temperature to heat the water to for 1095? Is it possible to match the speed characteristics of Parks #50? If it's possible, what other benefits would oil quenching provide me that water quenching would not? Or vice versa?

To minimize the stress on the steel:
I'm going to use 5/32 1095 that has been finished to 400 grit to reduce the stress points within the steel. I'm thinking maybe there will be less of a "channel" for cracks to begin in if its finished well.

Is there anything else I can do to minimize stress to the steel but keep a good speed for quenching?

I'm just getting into all this and I'm hooked! Any advice from "the pros" would be very appreciated! :thumbup:
 
If you're not already too far along, buy some 1080 or 1084 instead. Water will never match oil, the engineered oils create a specific curve designed to minimize stress and maximize hardness. Water's curve is just what nature created.

I have no experience using water with 1095 so I'll leave that to the guys who know more about it. How were you planning to heat the steel and control temp for the soak?
 
I'd like to buy some 1084 next. I'll probably go with Aldo's. What should I do for 1084? Oil or water? And can I use Canola?

I'm making a coffee can forge/oven with a bernzamatic torch and thermocouple to regulate temps.
 
Theres nothing faster than water/brine but tink fairies hang around water ..Takes a lot of trial & error and practice to get rid of the tink fairies..
 
For 1084 you can use canola and get good results. It's also less difficult to get the heat part of the treatment right. I won't get into the details, we have about a dozen threads in the past couple months on the specifics of 1084 heat treating.
 
Let me preface this by saying I've only water quenched W series steels. Much of the advice below should however be pertinent to good 1095.

If you do go ahead and try water quenching, I've seen temps ranging from room temp to 120 F. I personally used water almost as hot as it comes out of my tap, probably about 110 F. I had some successes, and good hamons from water, but as Kentucky said the tink fairies were too much for me in the end so I bit the bullet and got Parks 50.

With water quenching it's important to actually use either brine, in which the salt content evens out the quench by dispersing the vapor jacket, or use satanite or other fireclay to achieve a similar effect. Without some way of aggressively breaking up the vapor jacket or protecting the steel from uneven cooling, steam bubbles can build up unevenly around your hot blade and cause uneven cooling or cracking.

It also helps to have a smooth finish, 400 may not be good enough if we're talking a belt finish. A 400 belt finish, unless nice and clean, can hide some heavier vertical scratches, which can cause cracking. I like to go with a lengthwise hand sanded finish before a water quench, 280 works as long as there are no vertical scratches. Also, hit the unsharpened cutting edge and the bottom of any ricasso lengthwise with 400 belt before quenching.

Go right to tempering after the quench. A water hardened blade can sometimes tear itself apart minutes after you come out of the quench if you don't. Also, you may want to read up on interrupted quenching or water/oil interrupted quenching. Don't stir the blade or move it sideways in the quench. Just up and down or as if you are cutting it.This can actually help it quench more uniformly. Heat as evenly as possible. A tube baffle in your forge chamber to even the heat and keep any hot spot/flame off the blade helps a lot. (A good idea with any quenching medium.)

Heated canola and 1084 will work fine. There is a ton about that combination here if you search for it.
 
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Heating of the water exascerbates the main problem with water, and that is the gas envelope that forms around the heated steel, salt is added to water to increase its boiling point to combat this, thus making it a more effective quenchant. With brine you can expect a 66-75% sucess rate, if you say you cannot afford a fast oil quenchant, then plan on spending some of the money you have on steel. The good news is that 1095 is cheap.
Good luck, it is a good idea to have your tempering oven up to temp and gets the blades in there as soon as they are cool enough to handle. This reduces the time the steel is under stress.
Del
 
Right on Del, it's true that Parks 50 starts looking relatively cheap when suffering the water quenching blues!
 
I use brine or Parks*50 depending on desired results (Usually hammon related) I am one of the few that use mainly 1095 and some W2. I have been quenching with brine for the last 7 years and finally have about a 70 % success rate. I'd say get some 1084 from Aldo. To do your first knife with.
 
I knew my idea was too easy. Ok. Thanks for the good advice. My next order will be for 1084 or Parks #50. Where can I buy Parks?
 
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