HELLO! I'm misque, and I'm a "steel snob"!

Joined
Jul 9, 1999
Messages
3,316
Are you one too?
This insidious ailment grabbed me in my knife nut infancy and has grown like an out of control cancer ever since. How did this happen to me?!
Oh, it started innocently enough.

Years ago, I was in the Marine Corps doing my tour of duty like a good Marine and found that I was starting to like knives more than guns and started to collect knives.
Like many of you, I was buying and using some pretty cheap stuff and began noticing the cheap stuff just was not holding up under use as well as I would like it to.
So I started looking at the heart and soul of the knife. It's blade and the composition thereof.
I started researching into the types of steel used in knives and tried to acquire some different types to see what worked best.
Not an easy task on the salary my Marine Corps was paying me, but you make do with what you've got if your a Marine, and I did.
I was finding that the type of steel used in a knife made a great deal of difference in the way the knife performed it's given tasks. Back then, it was widely accepted (as far as I could tell) that carbon steels always were the better choice over the pooh-poohed stainless varieties to be found from factory sources.
Custom makers were using the state of the art steels but I couldn't afford their wares and made do with what I could find.
As time wore on, I said goodbye to active duty and assumed my roll in civilian life as a responsible member of our tax paying society, still enamored of knives and still trying to scratch that annoying itch of finding a better blade steel on a knife.
By this time, I decided that the Buck 110 was using the best stainless under the sun for people like me who were not the fortunate rich and could afford to buy custom made knives.
For a while I ceased the search and went on to other things.
Then came Spyderco. A friend of mine introduced me to their product and that damned itch re-asserted itself back in the late 80's. And ever since that time, I have been acquiring more and more knives searching for that holy grail of knife steel nirvana. I've gone thru so many types of steel I'm hard pressed to name them all.
GIN1 or AUS 8A had me giddy when I got that steel in my hot little hands. I remember a time when I was elated to find a knife that had 440C as it's blade steel. Sanvik 12C27 looked like a great possbility for knife steel nirvana and proved to be pretty good. At that time ATS34 was an unobtainable dream of mine. But, someday, I would have a knife made with ATS34. Oooohhh yes...
Then came a laundry list of "have to have" new steels that had my head swimming with guilty pleasure: Damascus, A2, D2, M2, VG10, CPM440V, 52100, the return of 154CM, BG42, Talonite. And the list goes on and on, as does my desire to own knives in all the great cutlery steels of this age. I own samples of most all of the cutlery steels I've mentioned above, BTW, with the exception of Talonite. There are sooo many great cutlery grade steels that I cannot list them all, and they all have their place in the Kingdom of Cutlery.
My point in all this is that I've noticed that now I look down my nose at knives that have the 440 Stainless stamp on them or any knife that I have deemed to have "inferior" blade steel. I wouldn't dream of throwing my money away on 420J2. I'm even finding myself questioning my reasoning for buying a knife made from 440C or even ATS34. It was a real leap of faith for me to buy a knife recently that is made from Sandvik 12C27.
As my rant wears down, finally, I'm left wondering "Where does it all end"?
Is there a cure for this seemingly never ending quest to find the best cutlery steel wrought by the hands of man and do I WANT to find the end?
Do you?


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My new bumper sticker:

Let me tell you about my SIFU!
 
Hello Misque, I'm Jeff, and I'm a steel junky. I'm finding that I not only have to sample every premium alloy known to man, now I need to sample the best of heat treatment. I just got a Puma Wildtec lockback with a D2 blade. It has totally changed my mind about how sharp I can get D2, but I'm fretting because I don't know how it was heat treated.

I recently got a small Greco made from A2 alloy. It took a really great edge, but I hear they don't cryo treat the blade. Now I'll have to get an A2 blade knife and send it off to Paul Bos.

So this week I have been shaving with my folding knives in the morning. Wednesday it was my Junglee Marshall with AUS-10 blade, Thursday it was my Spyderco Starmate with 440V, Friday it was my laminated carbon steel Frosts of Sweden, Saturday it was my ... well I just think the steel bug has control of my life.
 
My answer would be a resounding, NO!
You sound more like an AlloyAddict than a KnifeNut. Am I concerned about the steel used? Yes, but I'm more concerned with is, does the maker or manufacturer know his steel, heat treatment, grind, design and put it into a package that performs the task it was designed for? Most importantly does that total package move me to want to spend my hard earned money on it? The miracle steel, without, the right heat treatment, and design is going to have a very limited appeal.
 
I'm with Phil on this one. Miracle steels get pretty tiresome. Whatever is hot today will be pooh-poohed within six months. I rather stick with a reliable time tested maker and accept whatever steels they feel most comfortable using for the specific task. The hype never seems to make much difference in the field.
 
I find myself agreeing more and more with one PhilL and one Jake Evans lately. Do you think this is a problem?
smile.gif


 
Let me give you an example.
I had heard about this maker named GenO Denning from Senator and Paracelsus. He learned from George Herron, and he makes a Loveless style hunter at a price that I couldn't resist. I found out that Les Robertson had a new model of Geno's with stag scales, he hadn't even posted it on his sight when I ordered one. My first handmade knife, and I wasn't working at the time. The type of steel used never came up, and I didn't find out what was used until after I had received the knife, 154cm, I couldn't have cared less.

Here's a picture, can you tell what steel was used by looking?
View


You can see the Mirror polished 154CM blade better here; http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/denhunt.htm

[This message has been edited by PhilL (edited 03-27-2000).]
 
I always look for quality materials when I buy and make knives. But the type of steel isn't the most important, because each steel is good for a different type of knife. I look more for the overall design. It has to be well designed and made to last for it to interest me. After that looks are a small factor. If it will be very functional for its purpose, and I can stand to look at it then I'm interested. I probably wouldn't buy a knife with 420j2 for the blade, but thays because I know it won't be very useful. Sure you can sharpen it, but the level of maintnance it would take to keep it sharp enough to be an everyday carry would be unpractical. Once you get into true blade steels that are proven to be good with the right heat treat, I'm not really all that concerned whether its 440c, ats34, or one of the new super steels that are coming out everyday.

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Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !
 
I've been fighting the "steel-snob" syndrome for years! I had my first 440C knife many years ago... but you know what happened? I really learned to sharpen knives! Now the big difference in steels, assuming they are good enough to take an edge, is how long you have to go before you steel it up or resharpen it! I don't really care if one will hold an edge 50% longer than another. In fact sometimes I prefer a softer blade that sharpens easily! Sacrilidge!!! (sp!) I still enjoy following the new developements on this forum, but I'm not chasing the latest alloys anymore!
 
Yes, I admit it I am a steel snob. As mentioned before different steels for different tasks, different knives, different grinds, different blade styles. I good carbon for a big blade, a nice stainless for the knife that ends up in the bottom of the tackle box. It's a question of comparisions. Is this steel good for this type of knife and this use? But there is a limit. I will not buy any knife with 420j or aus6 or aus8 or 440a or 440b. There's too much good stuff out there for the same price.

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~ JerryO ~

Cogito Cogito Ergo Cogito Sum


 
Okay! If your Favorite Custom Maker, had a proto type design, made out of Aluminum, wood or paper mache, and the price was right, would you buy it? I would!
 
In answer to PhilL's last question, NO! Looks and name mean nothing, so I don't want an aluminum, or 420J2 custom knife. I'll only take ATS-34 if it's virtually free. I would take the custom knife for the right price if it was AUS-8. Sharpness is the thing that defines a knife, I need a steel that is fine-grained for exceptional sharpness, I'll trade off a lot of other properties depending on application.
 
Phil :

If your Favorite Custom Maker, had a proto type design, made out of Aluminum, wood or paper mache, and the price was right, would you buy it

No, I don't buy them as art pieces. Steel selection is probably what I look for first, geometry is obviously important but it is controlled by the properties of the steel. Of course the maker must know how to grind the geometry and do the heat treat in order to maximize the abilties of the steel.

Jeff, what kinds of cutting do you? Something to consider is that I have seen references of 52100 having been spec'ed at having a grain size from 1-2, to .5-1 microns. For reference I have seen D2's grain size listed as 30 or more.

-Cliff
 
Gee Cliff, submicron grain size. Now I'm starting to salivate. I guess I'll have to contact Ed Caffrey for one of his multi-quenched and cryo'd customs.

Since you mentioned D2 grain size I'll mention this Puma Wildtec model 230247 I got last week. It is a lockback with flat ground 3mm thick, 3.3 inch long, black coated D2 blade. I guess it lists at around $115 (I stole it for under $35). I expected to observe a conspicously hard and rough edge when I sharpened it. I would guess it's sub 60 RC. After I thinned and evened the edge with diamond plates I worked it with my ceramic rods. The finish edge is primarily a product of my medium grit rods with a little refinement from my white rods and some stropping. I shaved with the blade yesterday morning. It did a very good job that was in the same league with my 440V Starmate. I was surprised with this from D2.
 
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