Hello. Question on self-defense khus and katans

Walking Man

Walking Man

BANNED
Joined
May 28, 2003
Messages
9,606
Hello, all.
I am curious as to what most of the martial types think of using a Khuk in place of a sword for self-defense. Of course, I am refering to the light Sira or Kobra. How would these Khuks hold up to a Katana in actual combat? It's a bit difficult for me to belive that a huge khuk would be as good of a weapon as a katana, but I would like to know how close is it? Or am I missing something, Is comparison to a Wakizashi a better comparison? (based on length) Also; Has a 2 handed Kobra ever been offered, and, does such a thing even make sense to use as a weapon of self-defense? Another consideration MIGHT be easy of draw. Are those monsters slow or fast to pull from the sheaths. (I was just thinking that might be a problem)

**Before anyone says it, I know there is only 1/1000000000000000 Of any of us using a Katana or Khuk in a fight. But these things are good to know.

Also, I realize that it is very likely that this thread has been discussed before, so please post links. Thanks (I just didn't know where to start looking) AND THANKS FOR READING :)
 
Walking Man,

Good question. I have been doing comparison testing on a variety of blades. I have tested both the Katana and various Khukuris (Cobra, Sirupati, Gelbu Special, and Malla) on similar targets one would use with the Katana.

While visiting my in-laws in Japan, I did test the Kobra and Sirupati (20") on bamboo. I lucked out that there was a group of Martial Arts students practicing with their Katanas in the bamboo forest too. They were surprised that a 20" knife could cut 4" diameter bamboo just as well as their blades.

One thing that a Katana has an edge over the Khukuri is that there is more reach with the sword, but if portability is a major consideration, then the Khukuri get the nod. Depends on what your after.
 
I think that would be much like comparing a great Karate student to a great Aikido student, apples and oranges.

Who would win? What would be better?

I believe that the best weapon is the one you are well acquainted with. Do what you train to do, know yourself.

From my opinion Katanas are fun, but Khukris do all the work.
 
It depends...

If I were going to have an altercation in a phone booth, hand grenades wouldn't be my first choice of weapon.

If you're away from home you're probably more likely to have a different set of tools available.

Dunno... I've always wanted to use the phone booth example. :)
 
One thing in advantage for khuks and self-defence, is that a smaller blade is easier to move in a more confined space such as indoors. I know I have difficulty swinging around my katana in my house, trying to avoid hitting walls, furniture, ceiling, etc... And I have real high ceilings at about 10' Whereas with a smaller 18" or 20" khuk I feel safe executing techniques at will. Also, its probably my eskrima background speaking, but I like using my live hand, and with too long a weapon, it becomes difficult to employ my live hand for such things as checking. Anyways, the cutting potential of an HI khuk is great. The added weight that the Kamis put into making these khuks indestructable, also aids in their force when swung (much like another similar sized weapon the barong) greatly increasing the cutting potential beyond just mere size. Anyways, it all breaks down to the practitioner. Your training will teach you what you prefer.
 
In length, but interestingly enough, khuks in the 18-21 range are in the 1.5 to 2 lbs category if weight. That is about the weight of a nice katana or single hand sword. So, basically the katana mass is still there but swuished into a more compact package.

As for khuks holding up against katanas, if you mean in blade-to blade contact (Hard direct blocking in swordfighting in most cultures is a no no, and very hard on the swords), the khuk would trash a sword. The sword is more lightly built (a specialized tool), and the brutish khuk (a more general purpose cutting tool) can easily withstand blade on blade contact, and would probably be undamaged from most contact with anything. I cut metal with mine.
(In my mind this comaparison is between a katana and an 18" AK)
If you're comparing a match of khuk wielder versus katana wielder,then it really becomes a game of ranges. The Kat with the longer reach would have a much longer range and thus targets are engaged at about four feet from the body. The khuk is much shorter, and thus the engagement range is about the same as you'd need to land a solid punch. So the match would be like a Tai Kwan Do practitioner versus a wrestler or boxer. The guy with the range wants to keep the other from closing, and the khuk guy wants to close as soon as possible because he can do nothing at the farther range.

Inequal lengths in weapons makes for good and informative sparring, fun to play the range game.

The khuk is an axe and a sword in a knife package. It's sharp, and it has good mass, which are about 2 outta four qualifiers I can think of for an effective cutting tool (the other two are edge geometry and applied force).

I'm with Bruise on the phonebooth thing.

Keith
 
I also like the phone booth example. I have done alot of grappling and distance is important to me. I want to get inside and get to work. Just as it would be in the Katana vs. khurk. I have a 20" Sirupati by Sher that weighs two pounds. It is a brute that would do damage to anything it hit be it sword or body, with a shockingly short swing. Of course the skill level of the two pwople would be super important, as well as how well they can physicaly wield the weapon. I.E. do they have the strength and reflexs needed to react and move effectively. Just a short two cents from me. Thanks
 
Well Khurks and Katana are two different weapons.

A Khurk is a knife, a very powerful knife, but still a knife. It is alot shorter than a Katana so it would serve as a defence weapon in close quarters....like indoors.

A Katana on the other hand is a Sword, with it's long cutting edge usually like 27~30" long with overall lengh being like 45" or so. With that info at hand the Katana wouldn't be a good inside weapon in most cases. Better for outside.

Difference in cutting ability?

This has been done to death.

But I will say this much:

The Katana is for cutting Flesh, that's what it was designed for and it does it extremely well.

The Khurk is more of a tool most of the time while the lighter models like the Kobra, WWII, GS and Siru are excellent weapons.
 
As in any form of combat the first successful move wins, so if you were to look at potentials, capabilities, options, limits and so on. A Khukuri has the most advantages. I would not choose a large one a sirupate of kobra for lightness and speed and flexibility of movement.
I have some experience in the never ending comparison of weapons as I have been teaching martial arts for over 25 years. I have been teaching the Khukuri for more than 20 and still am a very faithful believer.

I have a few students in Europe that are sword instructors who constantly report back to me on new discoveries of the combat ability of the Khukuri. They do comparsions ( by use ) against several sword types and have started re-thinking sword art standards that come from years of training.
 
did i not see a tale accessed thru one of the links on the HI website re a ghurka who had a disagreement with a japanese officer weilding a katana.

if i remember correctly the ghurka of course won, though losing a few fingers and use of a hand. guess that would be better than dying. a colt .45 govt. model would have been better if available, but you make do with what you've got.
 
If gunpowder hadn't been invented and everybody carried swords, a Siru, Kobra, Gelbu, Chitlangi, et cetera, et cetera, would all do well. If you're talking martial arts with khuks, you might want to look into Bando. If you're talking no-joke self defense it's "eight in the magazine, and one up the spout".;)

Sarge
 
Here is a Side by side of my 25" Siru and Chen Bushido Katana.



attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • size compare.jpg
    size compare.jpg
    83.9 KB · Views: 142
Originally posted by Bill Martino
Pictures are worth a thousand words if you can get them to post.
Click to expand...


Yeah, know what you mean Bill.....:mad:


Ahhh :mad:
 
Hey, Walking Man! Yo! What it is!

You wrote, "I am curious as to what most of the martial types think of using a Khuk in place of a sword for self-defense. Of course, I am refering to the light Sira or Kobra. How would these Khuks hold up to a Katana in actual combat? It's a bit difficult for me to belive that a huge khuk would be as good of a weapon as a katana, but I would like to know how close is it?"

Me: Are you asking if two equally skilled, equally smart, equally aggressive combatants would fare if they went at it?

Well, the short answer is, the guy with the Khuk would be missing one or both arms just before the Katana-armed guy split him in two starting where the left side of his neck meets his body, continuing on down at a diagonal before exiting the Khuk guy's body near his right hip.

However, it is rare to find two opponents so equally matched. In the final anlysis, victory favors the better trained and more aggressive combatant.

But my money is still on the guy with the longer weapon, all other factors being equal, or otherwise unknown.

You: "Another consideration MIGHT be easy of draw. Are those monsters slow or fast to pull from the sheaths. (I was just thinking that might be a problem)"

Me: Ease of draw is a non-issue. In self-defense situations it is so extremely rare to have two folks facing each other down and then going for it. If the other guy already has his out, and you don't, ease of draw ain't gonna make any difference.

Don
 
Don, you hit the nail on the head, BUT I did mention something about comparing appropriate sizes also. What I was really asking, I guess, is: Are the lightest kukris quick enough (and maybe long enough) to be able to keep up with a Katana? Well, the answer seems to be a resounding NO, which is what I expected, but how about compared to a similarly sized English or Viking or Roman (or whatever) sword?

Also, To me the shape does not appear (to me) to lend itself well to any type of swordplay, does any one else have thoughts on this?
 
Don, go back a couple of posts. A Gurhka took out a couple of Japanese with katanas. He used his khukuri. Need I mention, that is beyond my skill?:)
 
Since we don't know for sure, let's keep this hypothetical, with 2 comparitively skilled warriors. I think Don took that into consideration.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top