Help a fledgeling out guys...

Razorzedge000

Razorzedge000

Joined
Jan 10, 2002
Messages
121
Im currently experimenting in sword making. Used the rear coil spring from a dump truck from hades; coils on this bad boy were almost as thick as my thumb. Spark tests were and orange yellow fourth of july scene before any work was done on the steel. Hammered this stuff out at cherry red; and it was HARD to move even red hot. Quenched to blue hard in water. On both ENDS of the blade fracture occured; small pieces about 6 in long.
We took one of the broken pieces and created a halfbutt chisel/knife edge w/ a grinder and whetstone w/oil. Split a pine 4x4 end on; whittled shavings off; still sharp no edge damage. With proper safety equipment in place (of course)hammered & cut/chisled "mushroomed" edge of a work hardend old bronze/brass hammer with only minor edge damage to the test piece (minor grinding w/ "miracle wheel" those things rock!!)"rehoned"; "Vise-d up" a chunk of structural steel; and repeated cutting/chisel routine w/hammer; and dinged edge;but again reperable. On both the brass and low grade steels the "knife" would damage both mediums with hand pressure only and still hold a serviceable edge.
We threw the remaining 55 in of raw matl. on the floor; no shatter;slammed it into a vise stand bolted to a concrete floor no effect; Whacked it across the tongue of the anvil; no breakage, springs at hand pressure and goes bak into shape. Only thing we cant figure is why the breakage at both ends at almost xactly the same "spots". Any help you have on this would be most appreciated
 
The steel you have is more than likely 5160 and won't take a good water quench.Give it a oil quench and you should be fine.It will take a good strong spring tempered edge if that is what you are looking for.
Good Luck.
Bruce
 
Yep...Sounds like 5160. I use Crisco to quench. It is great steel but just won't stand a water quench at all.
 
Stock that large is hard to move anyway and I've heard people say that 5160 is a little hard to move. It's been my experience that 5160 forges like butter compared to something like L6 or 52100.

I wonder, Wayne Goddard mentioned using some spring steel once that was difficult to move and it turned out to be 6150. A steel much like 5160 only with (if I remember right) vanadium added to the mix. Bruce and Peter are right, change to an oil quench ( I use plain cheap vegetable oil heated to around 120-140 degrees) and you will have excellent results.
 
This is a question for Peter Nap. Do you use the Crisco in solid form, or do you preheat it and make it a liquid first?
 
Elwin, I use it in both forms and I don't see any difference. Now before you try it on something nice and have it not work, I triple quench everything. The first quench in solid always seems good when I file test it and that first quench also heats the Crisco to liquid. The 3rd is also is liquid because of that. I do NOT try it as a solid when it's cold. I heat a steel rod to red and throw it in there first.
Quenching in a cold medium will crack your work as quick as water.

I have not tried the solid on a sword. This is mostly because I don't have enough Crisco to fill that quench tank. I use light cooking oil I get from Sams club. If I ever get a source for large amounts of Crisco I'll give it a try.
 
Peter and all,
If you're as cheap as I am you could try the used grease that restaurants throw out. I cut mine with a little less than 1/3 transmission fluid (used, of course). It will make your shop smell like french frys!
Second cheapest guy in the world, Lynn
 
Well I'm as cheap as you, juust not as lucky. Everytime I go in a place and ask about their old grease they figure it's some scam or the health department trying to set them up. Maybe I should take a knife to show what I do with the grease and what I'll do with the knife if they don't give it to me!:D :D
 
Anybody heard of Gary Crowther upper MN;Owner of Iron Crow Forge?? Im his newest apprentice. He said while doing some reseach on properties of quenching materials;he found out in the "good ol days" lambsfat was uesd extensively. Says Crisco meets the almost same exact molecular criteria as lambsfat for a black/bladesmith and we use it all the time. Cajun Fried Katana Factory...This is Razor..How can I help u?? He said after 30+ yrs looking around Crisco was the best!!! Were wondering if its Silicon Mangansese 6150 spring steel?? Hard as Hell,guyz;makes a pretty darn good knife as it is w/o the oil quench.Just an idea here and remember Im a Kid compared to you; but its in my blood; could the constant pressure and bounce and load from the big dumpers on both ends of the spring have caused the matrix to weaken just there alone?? Its almost the same measurement from both ends....
 
I heated a test piece of this stuff to cherry glow in the dark and quenched it in guess what. CRISCO. Pearlite formed at edge and this crap was so hard a file wouldnt touch it. Now to the temper question; Im thinking blue for the back of the blade but whats the best way to keep the back "servicable" while producing a viable tough edge.

I want this one to be a user;not a dimestore piece of crap. But then again; anytime u put this much blood sweat--etc--it just cant be dimestore. Thank You Oh Great Masters of--Whatever---:o (madeja
feel special didnt I?)

BTW: MR EVANS You got catalogue?? I like your attitude dude!!
(and your knives too boss!!)
 
Now that you have the Blade hard,you need to temper it in the oven for 2 hours at 350 degrees let cool to room temperature and then bake it again..This will give you a very servicable edge..
Now if you are wanting a spring back and have full hardened the blade then you will need to get a torch and a pan of water..Set the blade edge down in the water so it is deep enough to cover5 the heighth up from the edge you want to keep hard,Now with the torch paint the back dark blue,this can take some practice (try on some scrap first).This gives the toughest back and will let the knife bend and not break as easy....

Sorry but I don't have a cataloge,just the web site.I can make just about anything you have in mind just email me with any ideas you have..
Bruce
 
Bruce gave you the tried and true way to do it. I have found that sometimes it's hard to get a sword with a fair amount of curve to set right in a pan of water so I take them to my creek. You can bury it in very wet sand up to the point you want springy and do the torch trick. Try to use a fairly hot torch when doing this as the longer you heat the better chance for the heat to reach the cutting edge.
 
my utmost and deepest heart felt appreciation for your responses:

English Translation??? Damn dudes: keep talkin!! if theres only one way to go on the learning curve with u guyz its UP from here!!
 
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