Help- Aligner/holder for sharpening

M

mpikas

Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
27
I like the idea of a hand held fixture for aligning the sharpening stone to the blade, like Smiths, DMT and Lansky's setups use, but it seems like all of them are just a little off, I can't get them to work quite to my satisfaction. I own a smith's setup and just got a DMT setup because I wasn't happy with the smiths, now I'm wondering if there's some intrinsic problem with the design.

Smiths- rigid, strong, well built, holds blades well and the angle doesn't change with the clamping motion. Doesn't tend to get i it's own way even with small blades. All of this adds up to a very repeatable grind. So why did I decide to try something else? Since the guides only attach to one side, you always get a slightly different angle on both sides of the blade, there is no way around it with this design. I marked it so i always put it with the point of the blade facing the same way so I always get the bevel offset to the same direction, but I got tired of always having a slightly crooked looking blade.

DMT- I though this would fix the problem with the smiths, the guides mount to both sides so they're always offset the same on both sides. Well great, but it doesn't hold the blade as well, doesn't have the little recess that the blade seats in on the Smiths. If you cut one I suspect that it would weaken the thing enough to make it not as useful or break. It does have some little guides that you can press against the spine of the knife, but with most EDC size or smaller knives they are too far back for the small blade/the blade does not stick out far enough to sharpen. It's also bulky and gets in it's own way, and in no way repeatable (by the time you fudge it around enough to be able to sharpen the whole edge you don't know how close you are to the original. Since the angle changes with the clamping motion that isn't repeatable either (but that's the least of my problems.

I'm worried that the Lansky one is going to land somewhere in between, and still not right.

Suggestions? How to make one of these work repeatedly?

FWIW, the DMT diamond stones and holder are awesome, I love the extra course black one that I added to it for quick work of re-profiling an edge. The smith's ones are Ok, but not nearly as nice. Because of the offset of the smiths setup they are not interchangeable without changing the edge angle. Grrr...
 
The Lansky guide's milled 'notch' is better-suited for smaller blades, such as found on traditional pocketknives, and the clamp is designed for use of the guides on both sides:

Here's an pic illustrating use of the Lansky clamp with a DMT Dia-Fold & Magna-Guide:

Note, the brass screws seen used with the Lansky clamp are my own 'mod' to this one. I substituted these lower-profile screws for the original screws, and mainly to replace the otherwise tall & obtrusive thumbscrew that came with the Lansky system. The brass is also a bit gentler on the aluminum of the clamp. The original steel screws tended to dig into the softer metal of the clamp.
 
Last edited:
^ what clamp is that, it doesnt look like the lansky clamp that comes with the kits. The pictures I see show a solid clamp, not the extruded version you have.
 
confucius37 said:
^ what clamp is that, it doesnt look like the lansky clamp that comes with the kits.
Click to expand...

That's the clamp that came with my Lansky diamond kit, purchased just 2-3 years ago. I also have a much older Lansky 'Deluxe' kit, purchased in early/mid-'90s, with a clamp that was different, and not near as adept at holding the smaller blades. This newer one is a big improvement over that one.
 
Last edited:
Ok thanks, I think I'll pick up just a lansky clamp to use with my DMT aligner stones. The DMT clamp is not the best when it comes to smaller blades as you said and there's only so much you can do with zip ties.
 
Well, I ordered the lansky clamp about 10 minutes after I posted, but am wondering what I'm going to get... Looks like there's 3 different ones, 2 with solid clamping arms one with a recess in the clamping surface like the Smiths and one without, both without much structure to the guide uprights. the third is the one with the open areas and some 3 dimensional shape to the guides. the thing is that it searching for them online it seemed almost all the listings showed one picture in the search, and another in the actual ad/page. No idea what I'm going to end up with. At least it looks like that clamp is designed for stones in the same plane as the guide rod like the DMT stones.
 
I played with a zip tie spacer with the DMT setup, and it does help quite a bit... the thing is that it's still not right for anything with a full flat grind or hollow ground to the spine, which seems like that's 3/4 of what I own. Those blades rock side to side in the guide as you apply pressure.

I also ran into an interesting problem. I'm just not getting a great edge with the DMT setup. I got a couple of knives clamped up well and went through all the stones (I added an extra course to mine since I hate putzing with reprofiling forever, actually I have an eec gray diamond stone coming for it also) black, blue, red, green and found that I'm not getting as decent an edge as I get with the smith's diamond stones, just going course and fine. With the smith's setup when I'm done with the diamond stones I have a blade that I can shave with, not smoothly but it will pop hairs on my arm pretty well, a few passes on the strop and I've got a really nice, hair popping edge. With the DMT setup (I've tried 4 knives, 2 the lowest angle setting, 2 the second lowest, I didn't calculate the actual angle but it looks like the second one is pretty close to Smith's lowest, the lowest should be finer), once I've clearly covered the whole surface with each of the stones I end up with an edge that will not shave. I can get it to by quite a bit of stropping, but it's not quite as good and takes quite a bit of work.

Any clues what's up with this? I'm about ready to go back to freehand, but i have to admit I like the perfect, square look that you get with a guided system.
 
It should work just fine with a full flat grind, I find that the clamp has enough angle to align to flat grind blades. Hollow grind blades are another issue all together. I use the DMT exclusively for all my sharpening, mostly I use slipjoints (most of which have full flat grinds).
 
With full flat grind blades, just make sure the clamp's inside surfaces are fully flush to the blade. I suspect too many folks get hung up on trying to keep the two halves of the clamp parallel to each other, on the assumption that the edge will be 'better' because the finished angle will be 'right'. This seems trivial to me, as the edge will be just fine with the clamp's sides not parallel, so long as it's fully apexed and the blade doesn't move (this is by far the most important thing, and why it's better to keep the clamp's faces flush to the blade, even if they're not parallel to each other). The finished angle will be 'different' with the clamp's sides not parallel, but it will also be fixed (unmoving); that's the important thing. Trying to make the clamp's sides parallel, when that config doesn't match the shape of the blade's grind (flat taper to the edge), only makes it more likely that the blade will move or pitch up/down inside the clamp. That completely negates the use of the clamp, and guarantees the edge will be rounded/blunted/dull.

Some hollow grinds can be difficult. On those, I put the clamp as much on the tang of the blade as possible, where it presumably is flat and easier to hold.

Regarding your finished edge not seeming as sharp, I think most of this just comes down to making sure the edge gets fully apexed (burr formed along the full length of the cutting edge). If one stops short of that, by not specifically looking for and verifying the presence of the burr, the edge will almost always be less-than-perfect. I never had much success in 'assuming' the edge was (or should be) sharp and moving on to the next hone, without actually proving to myself it was fully apexed.
 
Last edited:
I'm positive that I"m getting it "fully apexed." The fact is that I'm comparing it to another almost identical system, it doesn't really make much sense that I would be able to get a good edge with one and not the other. I'm kind of wondering if it's something with the "stones." With the DMT setup, I'm getting an abrasive slurry on the blade edge that kind of resembles what you get with a waterstone, that I don't remember getting with the smith's (I got dirty water from grinding off the steel, but it didn't feel abrasive like the stuff from the DMT setup does)
 
mpikas said:
I'm positive that I"m getting it "fully apexed." The fact is that I'm comparing it to another almost identical system, it doesn't really make much sense that I would be able to get a good edge with one and not the other. I'm kind of wondering if it's something with the "stones." With the DMT setup, I'm getting an abrasive slurry on the blade edge that kind of resembles what you get with a waterstone, that I don't remember getting with the smith's (I got dirty water from grinding off the steel, but it didn't feel abrasive like the stuff from the DMT setup does)
Click to expand...

Might try using the DMT hones dry (this is how I use mine). Periodically wipe the hone with a damp sponge or a microfiber towel to pick up the excess swarf. For me, it sort of forces me to go lighter on pressure this way, which is always better with diamonds. The DMT hones will get the job done, though. And I'd still emphasize looking for and verifying the burr. If you're not, I'd bet it's coming up just a bit short of the apex. Not trying to be obstinate on this point; I went through the same thing until I started forcing myself to see (and feel) the burr, before moving past the first hone. Never realized how sharp the edge could be, until I started doing that every time. I had previously assumed I was apexing the edge, but found out otherwise (eventually).

You might also be dealing with some 'break-in' of the new DMT hones too. After some use, they'll get a little more predictable and consistent.
 
With a little bit of tinkering I actually managed to get a pretty good edge on a few knives now (I've had a couple of people refer to it as "stupid sharp," my mother was using a kitchen knife that I sharpened and just nicked her thumb and was looking at it saying "I'm not sure if I cut myself," until she played with it and realized that she had a deep, really clean cut across the front of her thumb that started bleeding all over the place after a few minutes), but did something totally different then what I did before:
- I found that not only is there a courser black DMT stone, but even an EEC grey one that works (it's part of their ski/snowboard maintenance line), I can re-profile a blade with that in literally a minute or 2
- using the zip tie thing and wrapping the blade in some masking tape to stabilize it
- I go through all the stones with the guides set at the lowest angle setting
- once I'm satisfied that that is done, I set the guides up one notch and make just a couple of really quick, light passes with the green, EF stone- at this point all the knives I've tried this on will shave quite well
- strop on strop with green compound
- strop on bare leather strop lightly

This seems to give a very, very sharp, polished edge that I believe because of that micro-bevel step is actually reasonably durable, I haven't had to resharpen any of the knives I've done this way even after some use (I used one of them to re-carve the profile of my home made hardwood strop handle after a friend's dog chewed it, it was still shaving sharp when I was done)
 
I wish this board had a way to attach images/video, I just got the lansky holder in the mail.

Even though the site showed one of the older designs I got the newer one that looks like it's extruded/machined with the red knob, the one that I was hoping for. I'll be honest, it has _nowhere near_ as nice a finish in person as it looks in the pics. I haven't used it yet but tried clamping the SOG Flash that was in my pocket (flat grind) and am seriously disappointed. the only thing that it does well is the knife registers well in the notch. the knob is small and stiff, feels like it's chewing up the aluminum, but worse it's the least stable out of all of them, the knife can flap around back and forth (I shot some video but have no place to post it). At this point:
- the Smiths one is by far the most rigid, and I like that the guides don't move relative to the blade as you tighten it, the problem is that it always clamps the blade slightly offset. If you don't care that you see a little more of a bevel on one side then the other and you only have a choice of 2 angles, this one would probably be my choice. I suspect that the reason that I was able to get a nice edge with the Smiths easier than the DMT is just because it's so rigid. Unfortunately, I know that anal-retentive is hyphenated :(
- the Lansky should be the best, it has the stable clamp design of the Smith's and it's solid aluminum structure, but I think it's probably the worst. The execution SUCKS. It's the most "floppy" and the aluminum feels really soft. I actually wonder if DMT's plastic is stronger.
- DMT needs some help, but it's probably the most useful and for what it is is probably the best built. With a piece of zip tie in it it will hold the blade ok (not as well as the Smith's), it's the only one that looks like it will get you an even, consistent bevel on both sides of the knife, and has the most adjustment out of them. BTW, I found that using the zip tie I can repeatably get a close enough setup that I don't see any missed spots on a polished edge when I hit with the EC stone

I'll tinker more and post again if I change my mind.
 
I just got a lansky clamp too. I have the same experience as you mpikas, I could not get a solid clamp on most of the knives I tried. I did however find it useful for clamping very small blades (like pen blades). I think for me the DMT works best for 90% of my blades, but the smallest blades seem to work well with the lansky.

I haven't sharpened anything on it yet, just played around with the clamp but if I can use it to get those small pen blades sharp then I will be happy enough with it.
 
I haven't tried it with very small blades, but I'll note that the DMT is not happy with them. It's funny, the Smith's clamps most blades well, at least better than the other 2. If it was centered (and if you're an adjustment freak had more guide points) it's easily the best clamp
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top