Help Choosing Survival Knife (folder)

Joined
Aug 11, 2006
Messages
16
Now, i have my Kabar Combat in D2 steel. Sealed with tuf-cloth and now im trading up so to speak my CRKT 16-14sf for a new folder

I have it limited to 2, both made my Dough Ritter of Equipped to Survive.

One, is Made from M2 Steel - > Limited Edition M2-Steel Version
RSK Mk1 HS


The Other is Made from S30v Steel - > RSK Mk1

They are the exact same design, excpt for the steel. What should i go with? It will be treated with Tuf-Cloth, but, i do primitive camping, so it wont get oiled or cleaned too well in the field. I go for 4-6 days usualy, so it will need to be able to take atleast that amount of time without pampering.

What do you guys think?

Edit : Man, i reealy butcherd what i wanted to say in the topic line... i hope u guys still read this.
 
This site has information on several blade steels including M2 and S30V. Also, it references the Ritter, Benchmade, Reeves and other makes.
 
Unless it is really hot/humid or just rains a lot the M2 version would be a better choice.

-Cliff
 
I would go with the M2. Put some oil on a rag and put the rag in a baggy. Run it over the knife a couple of times a day and I think it will do fine.
 
Both the S30V and M2 fullsize Ritter folders seem to be available at Aeromedix.com.

I have both of these knives, but for now mostly take the S30V into the field, but if I could have only one, I'd keep the M2.

Today I ordered the Ritter S30V fixed blade. I'm looking forward to playing with it.
 
Another model you might want to consider is the Ontario RAT1 folder. I have been carrying one since last Oct/Nov and love it :) Holds a great edge and even though I have purposely neglected it on occasion it laughs off the neglect. The steel is AUS8 and sharpenes easy enough too. The other thing I like about the RAT1 is that the blade left Ontario with really nice geometry too. I usually regrind most every knife I plan on using right off the bat but this one was ready to go out of the box. Cost wise it doesn't sting too badly either :)
 
I really like my RSK MK1 in S30V. But I would have liked to have gotten M2. I've really developed an appreciation for carbon and tool steels in the past year.
 
Bill Siegle said:
Another model you might want to consider is the Ontario RAT1 folder. I have been carrying one since last Oct/Nov and love it :) Holds a great edge and even though I have purposely neglected it on occasion it laughs off the neglect. The steel is AUS8 and sharpenes easy enough too. The other thing I like about the RAT1 is that the blade left Ontario with really nice geometry too. I usually regrind most every knife I plan on using right off the bat but this one was ready to go out of the box. Cost wise it doesn't sting too badly either :)

Bill, thanks for the feedback on the RAT-1! :thumbup:
 
I have both the S30V and M2 versions of the RSK Mk 1, they're both good knives. If it weren't for corrosion, selecting M2 would be easy; however, 4-6 days in the field with no cleaning/protection of the edge could reduce the wear resistance advantage you would normally get from M2. If you can take just a bit of not so primitive tuff cloth or a small bottle of gun oil to treat the edge, M2 should work, otherwise S30V may be your best choice.

Another option is to get the D2 Griptilian from Cabela's -- I've got one and it's a very nice knife. Less corrosion issues than M2. $.02
 
I took my ritter grip M2 camping 2 weeks ago with no ill effects. 1 day hot and sunny, one day rainy. I originally brough a Glock G81 field knife but found that I didnt really like it for a bushcraft fixed blade. So I was stuck using the ritter and had no issues at all. I made about a pound of beech kindeling, some notched branches, cut a bunch of green branches for a tent ghillie just for fun and some other chores.

I cant describe why but it seems that the glock knife is less effective due somehow to the size of the blade between the spine and the edge. It has to be somehow related to leverage. The ritter is wider in that area so the blade is more parrallel to the plane of the knuckles instead of the center axis of the knife. Either way I like the ritter M2 for all those types of chores.

When I got home it was much duller than when I left but 2 minutes of stropping on a strop with boron carbide brought it back to push cutting newsprint. I'm very pleased with this knife despite having to pay MSRP for it. I actually ordered the ritter fixed in S30v, despite the fact that I really dont care for S30V at all, due to the performance of the folder. It just got here on friday so I havent had time to put it through the paces, though it did show up extremely sharp.
 
LHD said:
I cant describe why but it seems that the glock knife is less effective due somehow to the size of the blade between the spine and the edge. It has to be somehow related to leverage. The ritter is wider in that area so the blade is more parrallel to the plane of the knuckles instead of the center axis of the knife.


Generally you can get a torque disadvantage due to excessive width but being too narrow usually isn't a concern. Could it be just a cross section issue, the edge is to thick/obtuse.

-Cliff
 
LHD - I just recently got into knives and have a 154cm mini grip. Also got the sharpmaker and finally learned what the strop (which I've seen in movies w/ barbershop scenes lol) does - and am interested in getting one. Where is a good place to get one? And I guess I also need some kind of medium to use on the strop then - the boron carbide?
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Generally you can get a torque disadvantage due to excessive width but being too narrow usually isn't a concern. Could it be just a cross section issue, the edge is to thick/obtuse.

-Cliff

Not sure what it is, perhaps the geometry of spine-edge size isnt the real issue but now that I think about it I seem to prefer small pushcutters and slicers that have wider blades in that area. When I bought the glock knives I bought 2. One to leave alone since it seemed like a pretty hearty light weight outdoorsy knife and the other one to experiment since they were so cheap. The one I took with me had been back beveled to 18-20 degrees and had a 22-25 degree bevel on it. It was probably a little bit thicker than the ritter but its a much different knife all together.

The torque just seemed to fight me all the way around, even when choked up tight. It seems like the leading edge being ahead of the center axis of the knife gained some sort of benefit over parrallel or trailing edge. Seems to remind me of similar relationship between the center of pressure and center of gravity on a rocket. The reason you dont see any, for lack of a better term, "front wheel drive" rockets.




mcmc said:
LHD - I just recently got into knives and have a 154cm mini grip. Also got the sharpmaker and finally learned what the strop (which I've seen in movies w/ barbershop scenes lol) does - and am interested in getting one. Where is a good place to get one? And I guess I also need some kind of medium to use on the strop then - the boron carbide?

There are lots of media to strop with. Leather is the most common it seems. You can get either hanging strops (like you see in the barbershop movies) fixed strop (leather attached to a piece of wood usually) and a couple other options. I tend to use hanging strops since they are long and seem to be cheaper than the fixed strops. I lay them on a my workbench and use them like fixed strops, I dont tension them with my hand and a fixed point like you see in the movies since its generally accepted that its not as effective.

You can also use thick paper, cardboard and a huge number of other things as strops, almost all of which are made better with the addition of a stropping medium.

Stropping medium is generally very hard, very fine particles of things like Cro, Boron Carbide, Diamond and metal buffing compound. The finer the micron count the more polished the edge will be at the cost of more strokes in most cases. Just like with hones. Stropping medium is found in brick and mortar shops and online in dust, paste and sometimes block forms. Some types are cheap but they get very expensive quickly. Not to worry since you only need a miniscule amount of it. I believe Thom Brogan paid around $100 for a pound of the boron carbide from ceradyne since that was the smallest lot they will sell it in. I bought either 3 or 4 ounces from him and I dont think I've used 1/20th of 1 ounce yet and I usually strop something once a day. A little dab will do ya has never rung so true. Most people who I've met that get into stropping have multiple strops loaded with different compounds for different applications or to reduce thier strokes for extremely fine edges. Its just important to clean your edge very well before moving to the other strop else you risk cross polinating the two.

When you buy a strop you'll have to condition it unless it says its already been done. I usually do it anyway. You rub strop conditioner on with a toothbrush and let it sit for a while. The conditioner will come with instructions on the time. You may require 2 or 3 applications the first time.

Every now and then most people clean thier strops and the forums have found that hand sanitizer and a rag work well to do this. I usually condition them after cleaning and then reapply the compound the next day.

Honestly if you want to become very proficient with sharpening/stropping extremely quickly go buy a straightrazor, straightrazor hones, a quality strop (for your first one dont spend the extra money on russian leather since it will probably get beat up as you learn), glycol shaving gel/soap and a cheap synthetic shaving brush if you bought the glycol soap.

Use the straightrazor to shave the flats of your face. You'll quickly see what you need to do differently.
 
Wow, neat LHD - thanks for the detailed reply.
I will look into getting an affordable strop, then, and perhaps th boron carbide as well (does Thom Brogan still sell some? I take it he is a well-known person on the forums here?).

Interesting idea on the straightrazor. I was just recently thinking (after watching Sal's sharpmaker video and seeing him work w/ the razor blade) that I might want to try shaving w/ a straight razor. It seems like a good way to learn technique.

So I guess stropping is similar to using the honing steel - in that you can strop the edge back into alignment to lengthen the time needed between actual steel-removing sharpenings?

Thanks again!
 
You can build your own strop easily enough if you wanted. I made one from a strip of vegetable tanned leather and glued that to a strip of G10(wood would work just as well). For compound, I rubbed in some white rouge from Sears. Works great with just a few strokes on a blade after it is done on the Sharpmaker. Make em scary sharp!!!!
 
mcmc said:
So I guess stropping is similar to using the honing steel - in that you can strop the edge back into alignment to lengthen the time needed between actual steel-removing sharpenings?

Thanks again!

A properly loaded strop is actually abrading the steel too. The fine compound will "seat" in the strop after a couple of passes if you havent overloaded it. From there it acts like a rediculously high grit stone. The only difference is you only do a pull stroke compared to a push or push/pull like you do on a stone.


Bill Siegle said:
You can build your own strop easily enough if you wanted. I made one from a strip of vegetable tanned leather and glued that to a strip of G10(wood would work just as well). For compound, I rubbed in some white rouge from Sears. Works great with just a few strokes on a blade after it is done on the Sharpmaker. Make em scary sharp!!!!

I never had any luck with homemade strops or white compound. I didnt get a serious increase in pushcutting until I switched to a professionally made strop with the lightest of loadings of BC suspended in mineral oil. It could be that I'm making up for my lack of technique with more expensive technology though too.

I have knives that are nearly a year old that will pushcut newsprint but have never seen a stone. Just a strop. Not sure if thats ideal or not but I'm going to see how long I can EDC them with only a couple minutes of stropping for tune up.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Generally you can get a torque disadvantage due to excessive width but being too narrow usually isn't a concern. Could it be just a cross section issue, the edge is to thick/obtuse.

-Cliff


I just tried it again last night with a BM 960D2red which has a significantly thinner profile and noticed similar results to my previous encounter. It was not as noticeable as with the glock field knife but it was there. To rule out an what could be the effect of an uncomfortable handle I wrapped it with duct tape until I had a fairly large, spongy, very comfortable handle and saw the same thing. Perhaps its the placebo effect that I'm wanting to see?

Is there any reason this would be the case?
 
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