Hi all. I am hoping I can get some advice here, I am one step away from sending this thing to a professional sharpener when I have the funds. I have a GEC 63 in 1095 steel, and for being one of my favorite knives, it sure has been a thorn in my side since I got it. First were the issues of blade rap, twice back to the factory (it was not addressed fully the first time) and now I am sure that that issue is resolved (I can push the blade down into the handle against the spring now). But despite my best efforts, I cannot get the thing shaving sharp! I am fairly experienced in sharpening, and have had success sharpening and touching up lots of different steels. I have a Spyderco Sharpmaker, with the UF stones. I have used a sharpie to be sure I am hitting the edge, but it seems like it almost hits a peak sharpness (slicing paper pretty cleanly and will pop one or two hairs if pressure is applied), but I can not seem to get it any sharper than that. I am not looking for a hair whittling edge, I would just like something that can cleanly shave arm hairs, like my other knives can. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am at my wits end after having this knife for 6 months and it never truly being sharp. Thanks so much in advance for any advice that can be given!
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Help Getting 1095 Sharp
- Thread starter BK14
- Start date
DeadboxHero
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2014
- Messages
- 5,386
rounded apex produces those problems.
solution.
-make a crisper apex
trouble shooting.
-form a solid, even burr
-consistency in holding angles.
-properly deburr without damaging underlying apex.
ready GO!
solution.
-make a crisper apex
trouble shooting.
-form a solid, even burr
-consistency in holding angles.
-properly deburr without damaging underlying apex.
ready GO!
- Joined
- Jun 29, 1999
- Messages
- 9,844
I'd start with a coarse carborundum stone (they're pretty cheap) and an angle guide. You can tape a coin on each side of the blade to set the angle. Gently hone until you have re-established the bevel you want and raised a substantial burr, then go to your Sharpmaker.
DeadboxHero
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2014
- Messages
- 5,386
Tell me what you have
Do you only have the Sharpmaker with the UF stones?
(brown,white ceramic)
Tell me your sharpening process step by step.
Then we can all give you options, but everyone will suggest what works best for them which is fine.
Just keep in mind that there are plenty of way's to get the desired results and its plenty possible with what you have.
I have the sharpmaker with the standard brown and white rods, with the additional ultra fine rods. My standard sharpening process is the corner to flat side of the rods from brown to ultra fine, with the rods in the base of the sharpmaker. Usually the 20 full strokes on both sides of the edge, but I generally just go by feel when deciding whether or not to go onto the next step of the process. However with this particular knife, I have used the rods freehand with sharpie just as a less work intensive way to hopefully get results. I am so appreciative of the help!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
DeadboxHero
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2014
- Messages
- 5,386
The brown stones load up very fast with metal filings from cutting steel. I recommend you clean them. You can see for yourself, that graphite pencil lead look on the stones is acutual clogging the abrasive, making them "glazed" the don't cut very well when clogged. You can feel the difference to. You can feel more "feedback" on clean stones, you can feel them actually cut the steel but the brown ceramic cuts slow compared to other coarse abrasives and needs very frequent cleaning.
The secert to the sharpmaker is the brown stones. Your edge has to be solid off the brown stones then it can be enhanced with the fine and UF.
Then you maintain that edge as long as possible with the UF and fine stones until its time to go back to the brown stones. Hence the name the "sharpkeeper"
This is why the Diamond/cbn stones are nice to have since they really speed up the process and allow you to retire the brown stones.
you can't really use the corners on the brown stones because they load and glaze to quickly, so I'd use the flats.
I would just stick to one side until you get a small burr along the entire edge then switch to the other side and repeat.
Once you make a burr on the otherside, reduce the burr by alternating the strokes each pass with light pressure, left, right ,left right...
until the burr is diminished.
Then move to fine, and ultra fine with just alternating passes, light pressure, no burr forming.
technically you could keep doing 20 passes until eventually you will make a burr when the bevels intersect but that sounds very laborious, I prefer to have fixed landmarks and objectives when I sharpen, Hence why I recommend staying on one side until you get a burr.
If the burr and burr removal concept is foreign then check out the stickies or someone else can chime in.
enjoy
The secert to the sharpmaker is the brown stones. Your edge has to be solid off the brown stones then it can be enhanced with the fine and UF.
Then you maintain that edge as long as possible with the UF and fine stones until its time to go back to the brown stones. Hence the name the "sharpkeeper"
This is why the Diamond/cbn stones are nice to have since they really speed up the process and allow you to retire the brown stones.
you can't really use the corners on the brown stones because they load and glaze to quickly, so I'd use the flats.
I would just stick to one side until you get a small burr along the entire edge then switch to the other side and repeat.
Once you make a burr on the otherside, reduce the burr by alternating the strokes each pass with light pressure, left, right ,left right...
until the burr is diminished.
Then move to fine, and ultra fine with just alternating passes, light pressure, no burr forming.
technically you could keep doing 20 passes until eventually you will make a burr when the bevels intersect but that sounds very laborious, I prefer to have fixed landmarks and objectives when I sharpen, Hence why I recommend staying on one side until you get a burr.
If the burr and burr removal concept is foreign then check out the stickies or someone else can chime in.
enjoy
aleforme
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2013
- Messages
- 2,147
So I was just sharpening my Beer Scout last night. GEC knives have a weird grind angle in my experience. I've always had issues sharpening them.
With your set up it's going to take a long while. You really need the Diamond Rods.
Here's what I did.
I set the rods to the 40 degree angle. I probably did about 40 to 50 passes on one side with the diamond rods to set the burr. I just used the flat side of the rod. I then did about 20 to 30 on the other side. I then alternated for another 20 or 30 per side. All passes were with a light touch.
Next, I lightly made a cut into a wood block to remove the burr. ( at least I think I did?)
I then went onto the Medium and Fine stones with about 20 to 30 alternating passes per side. I did this with each rode using rod's edge and then flat side. I went from somewhat light pressure to a feather touch at the end.
I then stropped a bit and came away with a edge that will cleanly slice magazine paper and shave a little hair off my arm.
Without the Diamond Rods, this would have taken a heck of a lot longer.
DavidHoback
If you see me posting, remind me to STFU & leave.
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2014
- Messages
- 326
I remember having trouble getting this knife or that knife sharp, and thought I was "pretty good" at sharpening. Then I learned to sharpen properly and have never had the problem again. While some steels DO accept a better edge, I can get any knife to an exceedingly sharp level. If this knife will not sharpen, it is your technique. Please don't take this the wrong way. I'm just being honest. I would put some time into honing your technique. (No pun intended)
Fantastic advice, absolutely no offense taken! I sure do not profess to be a sharpening expert, and have had good luck with factory knife edges. This ones been stumping me, that's why I so appreciate the help from all of you! Great advice given so far, and I have already begun to work off of it on the knife. Thanks again to all.
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2009
- Messages
- 13,433
At the very least, it's a strong possibility the factory edge is a little (or maybe a lot) too thick & obtuse. Such edges are always more difficult to get & keep shaving sharp, especially when the edge angle goes above 40° inclusive. Thinning the edge grind to something below 35° inclusive, or even better, below 30° inclusive, makes shaving sharpness much easier to attain and maintain.
Assuming there's no complete failure with heat treat, which is rare, thinning it out will fix these problems every time. A coarser stone will work better to do the thinning; it's difficult to do with the Sharpmaker's ceramic rods alone; the rods load up too fast and can't sustain heavy grinding more than a few minutes at best. Slow progress of grinding leads to fatigue and inconsistent angle control, so rounding of the edge usually results. A SiC stone, a diamond hone, or even the coarse side of a double-sided aluminum oxide stone will make much quicker work of it.
1095 is easy to grind. About the only issue that could make it difficult, would be if it's much too thick at/behind the edge, which always takes a little more time to fix.
David
Assuming there's no complete failure with heat treat, which is rare, thinning it out will fix these problems every time. A coarser stone will work better to do the thinning; it's difficult to do with the Sharpmaker's ceramic rods alone; the rods load up too fast and can't sustain heavy grinding more than a few minutes at best. Slow progress of grinding leads to fatigue and inconsistent angle control, so rounding of the edge usually results. A SiC stone, a diamond hone, or even the coarse side of a double-sided aluminum oxide stone will make much quicker work of it.
1095 is easy to grind. About the only issue that could make it difficult, would be if it's much too thick at/behind the edge, which always takes a little more time to fix.
David
Last edited:
I have a suspicion that this could be the problem. I can tell when they addressed the blade rap issue that they took at least a little off the edge and "resharpened" it. I would not be at all surprised if that was my problem. When I have the money, I'll purchase a coarser stone, I think it would be good to have around anyway. Thanks for the advice!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
eric0822
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2012
- Messages
- 182
Agree with some of the other posts. I have GECs and the Sharpmaker.
THE KEY is getting the diamond stones.
Use a Sharpie to mark the edge so you can see what you are doing. Work one side only on the diamond stones until you can feel a burr along the entire edge of the opposite side. I use the just the flats on the diamond stones. Feeling a burr take some practice, and I'm still a novice. But I've noticed that once it's there, you will feel it. Just make sure it's along the entire edge, from heel to tip. Oh, I don't set a back bevel; I just stick to the 40 degrees.
Once I have a burr and the Sharpie is gone from heel to tip, I move to the other side and do roughly the same number of strokes that I used on the other side. Then I go to the normal progression: brown corners (20 strokes each side, alternating sides with each stroke), 20 brown flats, 20 white corners, 20 white flats, 20 UF corners, 20 UF flats. Test on phone book paper. If it's not really sharp, I go back to the UF stones for a bit. I will then clean the blade and strop a few times, then check again.
Until I got the diamond stones, I was ready to throw the entire thing in the trash. Can't stress enough: the key is the burr. If you move on before getting that burr, you will just be sharpening a dull edge that will continue to be dull, no matter how many strokes.
Hope this helps!
THE KEY is getting the diamond stones.
Use a Sharpie to mark the edge so you can see what you are doing. Work one side only on the diamond stones until you can feel a burr along the entire edge of the opposite side. I use the just the flats on the diamond stones. Feeling a burr take some practice, and I'm still a novice. But I've noticed that once it's there, you will feel it. Just make sure it's along the entire edge, from heel to tip. Oh, I don't set a back bevel; I just stick to the 40 degrees.
Once I have a burr and the Sharpie is gone from heel to tip, I move to the other side and do roughly the same number of strokes that I used on the other side. Then I go to the normal progression: brown corners (20 strokes each side, alternating sides with each stroke), 20 brown flats, 20 white corners, 20 white flats, 20 UF corners, 20 UF flats. Test on phone book paper. If it's not really sharp, I go back to the UF stones for a bit. I will then clean the blade and strop a few times, then check again.
Until I got the diamond stones, I was ready to throw the entire thing in the trash. Can't stress enough: the key is the burr. If you move on before getting that burr, you will just be sharpening a dull edge that will continue to be dull, no matter how many strokes.
Hope this helps!
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2012
- Messages
- 8,799
I have found that the 1095 in GEC knives is fairly hard. They also seem to go full-flat grind almost to the edge, and the edge bevel is often so small as to be more like a micro-bevel. It's no picnic to reprofile on just the brown (medium) Spyderco rods. It's not D2 by any means, but it just takes some time.
I have a GEC Powderhorn Jack that is my most carried GEC. It needed some work on bench stones to get a decent edge bevel. I can't recall for sure what I used, but it was either DMT diamond hones or a Norton silicon carbide stone. Once I got that initial edge bevel set on the coarser and more aggressive stones, the Sharpmaker did fine on refining the edge.
If you want to only use the Sharpmaker, then the diamond or CBN rods are a must have. More important than the UF rods in my opinion.
I have a GEC Powderhorn Jack that is my most carried GEC. It needed some work on bench stones to get a decent edge bevel. I can't recall for sure what I used, but it was either DMT diamond hones or a Norton silicon carbide stone. Once I got that initial edge bevel set on the coarser and more aggressive stones, the Sharpmaker did fine on refining the edge.
If you want to only use the Sharpmaker, then the diamond or CBN rods are a must have. More important than the UF rods in my opinion.