Help!--horn, chiruwa experts.

firkin

firkin

Joined
Jan 26, 2002
Messages
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Just got a JKM-1 by Shanker (I think...trisul)
Ordered a K.K., but with the one-day deal before Uncle's trip, I ain't gonna complain, and it ain't worth sending this much steel back and forth--Man, it is a tank. A little longer and even more massive than than the one I have by KNN. A micro-tank.

Here's the catch--the horn has shrunk and BOWED.
It's in contact with the tang at the ends, but that's about it. You can see daylight between both slabs and the tang. The rivets went with one slab, and so they are sunk about 1/16 on one side. If they weren't sunk down so far I might just try to get a bunch of J B Weld in there. Can't do it with my fingers, but can squeeze it all back together with a vice.There's looks to be a little laha in there, but not a lot. But the slabs aren't really loose either (yet ??).

I'm thinking that Bondini superglue and the vice might be a temporary fix until I eventually try and drill out the rivets and reshape or replace the slabs. I don't want to use epoxy because I cant imagine that the horn will relax enough that the slabs won't eventually pop back out--with expoxy I might have to grind off a slab if one stays on and the other pops out again.

Any better ideas? Am I right about the horn?
 
I not an expert, but I think I would replace the horn. I have shrinkage problems with a couple of mine. Does anyone know why the horn shrinks as much as it does? I live in the desert and I assumed it was due to the obvious, but others are experiencing the same thing.

Ben
 
though I put hooflex on it, my Hanshee horn shrunk- the rivet in the handle sticks out.


I wonder how much this horn is aged before use, or if that matters?


munk
 
As I understand it, the desert is the worst place for horn. If it survives the stay in Reno, and is dressed ocassionally, I think one is likely to be OK. I atually suspect the example that I have maybe wasn't fully cured, or he tried to force fit it a little. My other JKM-1 has a pretty thick cushion of Laha in there, it's not a precision fit. I think the KNN had a little better idea of what can happen with the horn slabs than relatively young Shanker, but I ain't no expert either. The only slab handles I have is these two JKM-1s. And I've only got one horn-handled khuk (hidden tang which is doing fine after over a year, but I live right on the coast in So Cal. The horn doesn't dent like the wood does, which is nice. An interesting project in any case.
 
and it gets embarrassing. But didn't I find a site that said that knifemakers steamed heat to use horn (which is hollow) to make stuff...like sheaths and things? If that's right, then maybe the horn can be reshaped over a tea-pot?
 
..of deserts; when the temp falls below 10 degrees and dropping there is no moisture in air to speak of. Montana is no desert, but during winter with the heat on in the home people and furniture dry out.


munk
 
I have had no trouble with my horn handles but, I don't have any with slabs. When I first get the knives from Uncle Bill I goop them up pretty good and keep them wet for the first week. After that I don't have to worry about them too much. A couple of times a month usually is enough treatment to do them pretty well. When we have our real dry spells I treat them more often. I had a couple come from Reno with some mini cracks the I treated , let dry and put just a bit of Bondini where the cracks were and no more problem.

I don't think I would put the slabs in a vise. I think I would use a wood clamp and as they are moistened clamp it down a little at a time. Even if I had to take a couple of days to get them flat. If that doesn't help I would say super glue or replace the slabs. A couple of cents. :)
 
Pappy, you're getting close to what I was thinking.
My "vise" is a little clamp on job, not a big boy. What I wonder is if dressing the slabs with a lanolin dressing for a while, then adding superglue to melt up what laha is there, whether that will do the trick, or whether once the horn has warped, that's it and it will always be pushing out. The holes on the rivets aren't countersunk.

I guess either way is OK (karma from the big nexus in Reno),since I'm wondering about putting on langer slabs anyway, but it it will be sure be chore to carve them to fit the tang.
 
What about popping the slabs off, and once they've settled down, using a sander to flatten the side against the tang then epoxying them on with some blackener in the epoxy, and then re-riveting? With loveless or those other cutlery rivets?
 
Rusty, that's another thing I thought of, dunno about the Loveless rivets, it looks like the holes are about 1/4 inch, I'll have to see if those are big enough to get a grip with counter-sinking. The rivets and holes are bigger than my other JKM-1. I'm tempted to consider extending new slabs out to where the bevel starts, and drilling a hole for a third pin which would be a bit tricky. Even getting aluminum or brass rod that big around here will take a bit of searching it seems. It's not like it is ready to fall apart or anything, I dont want the tang to rust.

Funny thing is, even though the thing isn't hardened as well as the other JKM-1 I have, I have to make it work somehow. The cussed thing talked to me when I first picked it up. Damn.
 
Wish I could help, but for some reason either Ive lost my imagination, or just cant properly read anymore, I just cant visualize what is wrong with the khuk.:(
 
Here's what I would do, boil it, clamp it, let it cool/dry. Any remaining gap should be small and easy to fill with super glue. I know that strips of horn can be softened by boiling to the extent that it can be shaped and formed almost like plastic. On your thicker horn handle slabs it may just soften 'em up enough that clamping and drying might take the bow out of 'em. The JKM-1 on my belt right now was made by Shanker. Handle was a little rough when I got it, but after some gluing, filing, sanding, and polishing, it's now very attractive and comfortable. It was good enough when I got it, it's even better now.:D

Sarge
 
Reno is very tough on handle material. A few years back I had an opportunity to pick up an old khukuri with ivory handle. It was 130 or 140 years old and handle was in good condition. In three months of living in Reno the handle developed a crack -- made me sick.
 
Here in MN the winters are very dry and summers very humid I have a horn handled folder and the scales shrink alot in the winter and expand back to original shape in the summer....lots of hoof flex helps and the idea of using steam may work if done CAREFULLY and a bit at a time horn becomes quite flexable with the proper amount of heat....
 
Steam or boiling...Thanks for the ideas. Guess I'll have to depend on the laha that's there to keep rust at bay? Maybe gently heating the blade spine to drive out moisture?

"Wish I could help, but for some reason either Ive lost my imagination, or just cant properly read anymore, I just cant visualize what is wrong with the khuk."

Probably me Fed. I'll try again.

Imagine looking down at the top of the handle. The center sections of the slabs have pulled away from the tang--the slabs are now bent instead of flat. The ends of the slabs are the only part touching the tang. Since the rivets length didn't change, they are sunk in the holes on one side.
 
Doh, thanks for the explanation Firkin, I get the picture now. As has been said you can get some pliability from the horn with heat, but I would be careful as horn has a pesky habit of burning. One nice thing about pitch, is that it is already black. You could always try pouring more hot pitch into the gap it flows decently when real hot (though hot pitch can lead to one doing the ceremonial hot pitch on feet/legs/hands dance) but that still dont answer the rivet question. Part of me also worries, that even if you do bend it back, itll want to bend again once the temp/humidity changes. You could always just try and force in some humidity by steaming/lotsa hooflex, and see if a week of repeated slatherings will get her to relax. Be careful to if trying to bend, if the horn is really dry it can be real brittle.
 
Will Kwan used some hose clamps to fix a sirupati awhile back. If you were gonna boil it you could use one of thems to hold the slabs in place as you dunked it.
 
Sarge is probably right. You get the thing wet and hot and you may be able to flatten those slabs out. The small vise you have is like my little one from the sound of it. If it has smooth jaws it would sure be ok to use. I think I would put just a little plastic on those jaws so they won't rust on the horn.:)
 
Well, I'll let you know things work out.

I steamed the thing for a good bit and clamped it up. I'll let it set for a day or two. If I get any positive action, I'll know I'm on the right track. Boiling is next on the list. I figure that if things get close, I can slather the outside up with lanolin product, put on some hose clamps ala' Bruise, dry the lot out in a warm oven, then do the superglue thing.

Fed, long term the rivets bug me too, thought I guess rivets isn't the proper term since at least one side wasn't mushroomed. With the rarity of chiruwa handles in Nepal, I wonder if there wasn't a failure to communicate as they say. If all goes well, I'm hoping to expand them out a bit with a large punch and then sand down the more than adequate handle to be flush.At least I'll get friction then, and if the slabs are pliable enought to form back they won't split (I hope). First time messing about with forming horn, it will be educational at least.
 
Well......Well.......The suspense is killing me. Anybody else curious as to how it turned out?

If things don't work out you might want to check out www.texasknife.com they have handle slabs in stag, bone, and horn, fairly reasonably priced. Since a JKM-1 has no bolster, it would be a pretty straightforward (even fun) project to give one a "custom" handle.:D

Sarge
 
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