Help, I am drowning in traditional folders

matus

matus

Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
662
Hi, let me try it this way :)

The short version

- I am looking for a high quality traditional folder with excellent fit&finish and steel&HT. Sharpness out of the box is not deciding - I can fix that myself.
- I am located in Germany, but did not find German knife that was up to my taste. There are many makers in US (GEC, Queen, S&M, CSC and others).
- What makes me unsure which maker to pick is that there is a lot of talk about F&F issues - I would like to avoid ordering knife from US just to find out it has a blade play
- I would like to fit within $300 / 300€ (that puts Davison fantastic folders out of reach - in particular after 25% import duties and shipping)
- I plan to use the knife as EDC for office for small task (opening a latter or package, cut an apple, etc.)
- I am also looking at Robert Klaas damascus knives (German ones with Balbach damascus steel)

My questions:
- which makers should I consider?
- would some semi-customs fit my price range?


The long version

I do not even know where to start. I am coming from brief experience with modern pocket knives (spyderco, benchmade, CRK). I have had quite a few in my hand and at the moment have a small Sebenza 21, which however smooth, solid and strong, just can not cleanly cut apple and feels bit too tactical in office environment.

So I finally started to have a look at traditional folders and they are starting to grow on me very fast. Robert Klaas (hand made knives), GEC, Queen, S&M, CSC (and the list goes on) - my head is starting to spin around. I am surprised to hear that many otherwise respected makers often have F&F issues

I have browsed and read quite a bit before posting this thread, but I feel that I still need a little help to get where I want to get.

I am looking for a quality knife - either a simple monosteel or damascus. I am not planning to spend unnecessarily too much (I would like to stay under $300 / 300€), so custom knives are out of question (T.A. Davison knives are jaw dropping awesome, but after import duties at around 700€), but the budget should still allow for high quality production knives.

Rather than asking for particular model/shape, I am more concerned getting a knife that has very good F&F (no blade play) and good quality steel. If sharpness out of the box is not 100% I can fix that myself.

What I am also not sure whether I should dear to get a carbon steel knife - I have sever kitchen knives in carbon steel that have no problem at all, but that is in a well controlled environment. Pocket knife is a different story - stainless or semi-stainless would probably be a safer bet, but I can be persuaded otherwise.

So my priorities are the following:
- high quality, F&F
- high quality blade steel (and of course HT)
- nice handle material (preferably natural)

Thank you
 
Since you are not that comfortable carrying the crk around the office, sell that and get a davison.

With using the funds recouped from the sale, and your $300 a Davison is well within reach, including the +25%.

Buy once, cry once.

Other than that, look into GEC and the tidioute line in particular. Call the seller and ask them to personally inspect the knife they are planning to send you and explain to them your reasoning for calling.
When most people see that you are passionate about something that they are, they tend to be willing to help any way they can.
 
Still unclear to me what your pattern tastes are and size perameters?

However, GEC certainly do do a very decent knife and they don't usually have issues, it's always a risk buying on-line and I live in Europe too so I know only too well the postage costs and custom charges. So, I would study their range and see what pattern attracts you most and then ask here for further opinions on that particular knife. You can e-mail me for advice about dealers who send to Europe if you like. The quality of steel GEC uses is held to be good by Traditional enthusiasts both their carbon and 440c stainless.

Queen cutlery knives from the early part of this century in jigged bone and D2 represent very good value indeed and they are worth looking into.

Moki from Japan makes excellent Traditional lockbacks of super high fit & finish. You could also look next door to you in France (loads of impressive artisan makers and no import tax) one very reasonable make to check is Fontenille-Pataud.

Hope this gives you food for further thought, good luck!

Regards, Will
 
I would recommend the KaBar Dog's Head traditionals.

I own a Coppersmith trapper. They are contracted to Canal Street Cutlery, who make traditionals with great F&F, organic material covers and great steel. Their knives are very lightweight and spring pull is... 7/10. Mine looks great with a black suit in the office, or at a wedding. My trapper is in 14-4MOV, which is basically 154CM. From personal experience, their 440C is just as good as my GEC knives.

Here is one with SS bolsters, but the Coppersmith has copper bolsters.

KA-3211-Kabar-Chestnut-Dogs-Head-Trapper.jpg


canalst-4__27268.1375921372.1280.1280.jpg


http://www.kabar.com/knives/detail/195

The best part is that they go from $70-$150, which is an excellent price for a little beauty that it is.
 
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I am indeed considering selling the Sebenza, but I am still not sure I want to put that much towards a knife that will be in relatively high risk to get lost. But yeas, Todd makes some amazing knives that make it hard to reason properly :)

Ideally I am looking at knife that is under 4" closed - say around 3 3/4 with 2 blades - clip point at around 2 3/4 and a small wharncliffe. I would not put too much weight into particular handle material - nice burl/wood, camel bone, nice stag - all can work.

I will have a look at those KaBar knives.
 
Aside from stating your tastes regarding pattern (number of blades, size, blade style)
We don't know your tastes regarding blade alloy.

GEC has a wide array of patterns and generally top notch fit and finish, but they primarily use carbon steel. If you don't mind carbon steel, you should be able to find a pattern you like.

KaBar/ Canal Street have good fit and finish, and they mostly use stainless, but they don't offer as many patterns. If you prefer stainless, and find a pattern you like, this should be a winner for you.
 
In our kitchen most knives are made out of carbon steel. But I am just not sure how well is carbon steel suited to pocket knife. I am not saying 'no' to carbon steel, I am just not sure about it yet.

Otherwise D2 or good quality stainless would be fine too. I would prefer to avoid lower-end steels and too soft heat treated blades in general.
 
Help, I'm drowning in text! ...just teasing. ;) ...though I did read the short version and skimmed the longer version. :o

Here's your answer!! Click this link!
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1309063-2015-BLADEFORUMS-Club-Knife-Get-em-here!!

matus said:
I plan to use the knife as EDC for office for small task (opening a latter or package,...
Click to expand...

2015 Forum Knife **sheepfoot blade**

matus said:
...cut an apple, etc.)
Click to expand...

2015 Forum Knife **clip blade**

On a side note....Personally, I rarely use a pocket knife for food unless I don't have access to kitchen/dining cutlery. Another option is to keep a paring knife and some basic silverware at work.

That's not a very heavy work load and the knife will be capable of much more but it should handle your tasks with ease.




matus said:
I would like to avoid ordering knife from US just to find out it has a blade play
Click to expand...

In general, you might buy from a bladeforums gold member or bladeforums dealer member who is willing to look the knife over for you before sending it.



matus said:
...I am surprised to hear that many otherwise respected makers often have F&F issues
Click to expand...

There's a difference between issues and nitpicking. ;) Sometimes the problems are real sometimes they aren't. Sometimes people ask because they are inexperienced and don't know if something is a flaw. Issues do arise but there's a lot more detailed discussion in this forum because collecting knives is our hobby.

matus said:
Rather than asking for particular model/shape, I am more concerned getting a knife that has very good F&F (no blade play) and good quality steel.
Click to expand...

That's sort of like saying that you want to buy a vehicle but don't want to ask for a motorcycle, car, SUV or truck. It would help if you could narrow things down a bit. How many blades? What closed length? Etc.
 
Jake, you make some very valid points. But I did state the size and type of blades in post #5. I was wondering then the Forum knife will pop up :) Yes - I am aware of it and it is a candidate.

It would be indeed very kind if someone would be willing to check the knife and send it to me, but I did not want to bother the members here this far. I would rather try to contact a dealer (I had some very helpful email exchange with guys from KSF in the past, for example) and kind ask to check the knife before shipping it.

Let me come up with a few examples of knives that I like for a more focused discussion :)
 
You should look around here a bit.

As far as an apple slicer, The Case Peanut has become my favorite. Thin, can be very sharp, good looking, classic, and somewhat inexpensive.
 
matus said:
Jake, you make some very valid points. But I did state the size and type of blades in post #5. I was wondering then the Forum knife will pop up :) Yes - I am aware of it and it is a candidate.

It would be indeed very kind if someone would be willing to check the knife and send it to me, but I did not want to bother the members here this far. I would rather try to contact a dealer (I had some very helpful email exchange with guys from KSF in the past, for example) and kind ask to check the knife before shipping it.

Let me come up with a few examples of knives that I like for a more focused discussion :)
Click to expand...

matus said:
I am indeed considering selling the Sebenza, but I am still not sure I want to put that much towards a knife that will be in relatively high risk to get lost. But yeas, Todd makes some amazing knives that make it hard to reason properly :)

Ideally I am looking at knife that is under 4" closed - say around 3 3/4 with 2 blades - clip point at around 2 3/4 and a small wharncliffe. I would not put too much weight into particular handle material - nice burl/wood, camel bone, nice stag - all can work.

I will have a look at those KaBar knives.
Click to expand...

Ah... that does limit it quite a bit. I also like that combination of blades but it's not especially common to find on a 2-blade. It used to be even less common but manufacturers have picked up on the demand recently.

I think the 2015 Bladeforums knife would be a great choice. A couple patterns that come to mind are Wharncliffe mini-trappers and trappers and improved muskrats. If you are willing to swap the clip blade for a spear, then the GEC presidential and GEC Eureka may be options. There are also some SFOs from collector knives like the #33 w/ clip and coping blade and #77 with spear and sheepfoot... but those knives may be difficult to find. You'd need to look for them on the Bladeforums Exchange.
 
+1 on trusting one of the BF dealers.
Your specifications make me think of the Case/Bose wharncliffe trapper though :)

Fausto
:cool:
 
From my ongoing investigation it does seem that the blade combination mentioned is relatively rare - what actually surprises me as those two blade shapes are rather complementary, but I am very new to traditional folders and I somehow tend to like just that stuff that is hard to find :)

Case/Bose trapper does look interesting, but it is on the pricey side of things (and getting close to Davison)
 
Bobby Toole
Tim Britton
You will have to search where to buy, I see them at Blade show.
Both have outstanding quality, and a selection just under your budget
 
You guys just could not keep the custom makers out of the loop - I of course had to check on the makers mentioned, then browsed a little more and suddenly I find myself sending emails with questions about queue-time. In particular once I found out that Paul Manson is actually from UK and makes some really nice knives.

So it may well happen that before I know it I will be on a waiting list of some sort. But to get my homework done I will get some simple (but nice ;) ) production folder just to collect some experience and shape my expectations and/or preferences. I will try to get my hands on some nice carbon blade as that will directly answer the question whether a carbon knife can be an option (even though it seems that most custom makers use stainless steel of some sort.

I will keep you posted :)
 
A Buck 301 is ... ummm ... people ... friendly, or a canoe or maybe a nice two blade Barlow.
If you want a good lockback, I would suggest a Buck 110 or 112.
No one gives me a glance when I use any of these.
 
Glad to hear you're finding your way. Custom makers in Europe make more sense due to the absence of import-tax throughout the EU, one reason I suggested looking at French cutlers.

Your ideal blade combo might be difficult to find on production knives but I think it's an excellent idea to try out an American non custom so you can get the feel for a Traditional slipjoint/using carbon steel. This GEC 92 Eureka Jack from the Tidioute section is a really tight well made knife: no blade play, no gaps I can see, really smooth radiused scales. excellent snap. I like the simple but beautiful Ivory coloured smooth bone which will age and daken nicely, all steel construction (no brass liners) and a nice touch with a wraparound extended spring for the secondary blade a Sheepfoot which could be turned into a Wharncliffe with ease. Cost less than 100 USD delivered to Europe, so a reasonable cost I think.

Spear blades are first-class fruit slicers too:thumbup:

IMG_2784.jpg


Northfield 38 Whittler

IMG_3161.jpg
 
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Just found a knife that I really like (the look of) - the Nortwhood Wilamette Whittler with blue camel bone scales - just gorgeous (way beyond a 'testing knife' - that would be an insult to that knife). But the shipping cost & taxes bring it to Robert Klaas damascus blades ... tough world we live in ;)

So I keep searching. Pity that there are way too few of knives I am considering (GEC, queen, etc.) directly available in Germany. Not only matter of cost, but especially the hassle (long shipping, customs)
 
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