Help identify this old figurine

Varga Knives

Varga Knives

Joined
Aug 12, 2006
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1,302
I've always been curious about it but the couple of times I researched it I always ran into a dead end and learned very little. So, all I can tell you is that my grandfather found it in the mud in Germany during WWII. I always thought it to be Mongolian in origin but now I'm leaning more toward Persian but in truth I'm just basing that on a hunch. I thought the jewelry and clothing would be dead giveaways but like I said I had no luck. Maybe one of you guys could help?

There is a hole atop his head were apparently a hat once was but I didn't include the pic because I hit my limit.

I am mostly curious as to age, origin and purpose (if any significance beyond decoration).

I'm not sure how these pictures will come out on the computer so I might try for better ones later.

Thanks to all in advance.

photo1.jpgphoto2.jpgphoto4.JPGphoto5.jpgphoto7.JPG
 
Since you're in CT/NY I wonder if someone like the Metropolitan Museum of Art could help.
As a guess maybe Persion or Indian ??
 
Exactly. Museums love to answer these sorts of questions. Find one with a collection of Asian art, call and ask for a few minutes with a curator.
 
Thanks guys!

I never thought it was worth the expense of having it appraised but you guys may be on to something regarding the museums. Now that I know curators are more receptive to these things than I thought I may try my local museum for info being that the Met isn't as convenient as you might think. We even have a local archaeological society that I was just looking into the other day.

I know there is a wide diversity of knowledge on this forum so I'm still holding out hope for an answer here.
 
I really don't think it is Asian. It was found in Germany, I suspect it is German. The beard is one of the things I am going on

I have seen Antiques Roadshow therefore I am an expert on this
 
From the pics it looks like ivory. Whatever it is, it could be very valuable so be very careful with it. Don't try to clean it in any way, you could cause damage.

And don't let anyone talk you into giving it up. Specifically, don't believe someone if they tell you "This is ivory and it's illegal to possess ivory so you need to give it to me for proper disposal or you could get into big trouble". Even in the antiques world there are unscrupulous people and outright crooks. Don't give it to someone to hold onto so they can research it later and get back to you, don't let the thing out of your sight. And don't sell it to the first person who offers you a handful of cash.

Do a lot of research before selling it, if you intend to sell it. Any honest buyer who wants it will be willing to wait for you to conduct more research. Don't just take one appraisers word for it.

New ivory is illegal (I believe 1975 or more recent), but old ivory is perfectly legal to possess.

Please come back and tell us what you find out.
 
It looks like a Japanese Netsuke figure. If so, it would have been used to close a kimono. The hole on the head is a key feature as a cord would have been threaded through there.

n2s
 
De Plano said:
I really don't think it is Asian. It was found in Germany, I suspect it is German. The beard is one of the things I am going on

I have seen Antiques Roadshow therefore I am an expert on this
Click to expand...

If tough for me to argue your expertise but I don't think it's German.

It's never been cleaned as far as I know and still has some dirt in the detail work. I do think it's ivory but I never tried to melt it with a safety pin as a test for plastic because I'm pretty sure whatever it is it's a natural material (tooth, bone, tusk). I also don't plan on selling it.

As far as matsuke goes, I should have been more detailed as to the hole in the head. The hole is rather shallow (a couple of mm) and doesn't go through making matsuke out of the question.

I'll post more when/if I know more and thanks for the input.
 
I just found this picture of a 5th century BC bas-relief and while I certainly make no claim that this figurine is that old I do see a resemblence.
imagesCA3IZ7NE.jpgphoto7.JPG
 
The pin test for ivory is destructive. Visually, it is not difficult for a trained person to distinguish ivory from plastic. Just get an expert to have a look.
 
Gollnick said:
The pin test for ivory is destructive. Visually, it is not difficult for a trained person to distinguish ivory from plastic. Just get an expert to have a look.
Click to expand...

Yes, please avoid the pin test. A high quality close-up photo should suffice.

As for the item, it also looks to be about the right size for a chess set.

n2s
 
Chess set! That's a rather ingenious suggestion. The reason I think you may be on to something is the missing feet. The wide base necessitated for a chess piece would make it more likely to create a break at the ankle than a proportioned foot.

2nd thought... The problem I have with that idea (aside for the designed ankle weakness) is that there is no real distinctive feature to connect it to a specific piece. Therefore, it could be the missing hat which could set it off as a bishop or it could be a pawn. As for a bishop, the pendant on the necklace does appear to be an angel. Hmm. If it were however a pawn then approximating its size if he were to have feet and a base we would most likely be in the vicinity of 4 inches. I'm just guessing but I think a typical pawn would be about half the size of a king, hence 8" for that piece. An 8" king would make for an uncomfortably large table set. But what do I know.
 
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Just because it was found in Germany does not make it German. I doubt that it is Japanese, but it looks Middle Eastern, perhaps Persian or Greek.
Notice the trimmed mustache and beard and the styled hair.
 
Here is a 19th century Ivory set with an Alexander the Great theme.

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Link:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/mharrsch/tags/maryhillmuseum/

n2s
 
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Okay, the similarities are there so it still could be a chess piece. IMHO an uncomforably large board but still playable. And I suppose too that comfort may not be as important a selling point as showing off the owner's prosperity. I really like the silver and gilded bronze set in the link.
 
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