Help identifying vintage whetstone -- "Odell's American Beauty"

sanmateo

sanmateo

Joined
Feb 24, 2023
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Can anyone help identify what type of stone this might be, and approximate grit types?

It's a combination whetstone, about 5"x3". The coarser side is a medium gray, and the fine side is a light yellowish brown. The fine side has hairline fractures all over, but feels smooth.

Both sides are a lot finer than my Norton combination synthetic India stone.

The stone and leatherette case are stamped "Odell's American Beauty" so I guess it was sold for straight razors. I imagine this would have been used with oil? Based on the font and case material I'm guessing it's from the 1950s-1960s.


I sharpened a dull kitchen knife on these, after setting the bevel with my Norton Combination India stone (150 and 400 grit?), and it came out great.



(both sides were somewhat dished; I started flattening with my coarse diamond plate, but didn't finish. You can see the moon-shaped marks in the first image)

02eF8MQ.jpg


QUBmNCh.jpg


8pzPGLg.jpg
 
Is it possible these are Coticule or Belgian Blue? In that case, are these actually meant to be used with water?
 
sanmateo said:
Is it possible these are Coticule or Belgian Blue? In that case, are these actually meant to be used with water?
Click to expand...
Belgian stones are used with water. Actually "oil stones" can be used with water and some prefer it that way.
Natural stones vary in coloration, but those colors seem off for Belgian.
 
sanmateo said:
Can anyone help identify what type of stone this might be, and approximate grit types?

It's a combination whetstone, about 5"x3". The coarser side is a medium gray, and the fine side is a light yellowish brown. The fine side has hairline fractures all over, but feels smooth.

Both sides are a lot finer than my Norton combination synthetic India stone.

The stone and leatherette case are stamped "Odell's American Beauty" so I guess it was sold for straight razors. I imagine this would have been used with oil? Based on the font and case material I'm guessing it's from the 1950s-1960s.


I sharpened a dull kitchen knife on these, after setting the bevel with my Norton Combination India stone (150 and 400 grit?), and it came out great.



(both sides were somewhat dished; I started flattening with my coarse diamond plate, but didn't finish. You can see the moon-shaped marks in the first image)

02eF8MQ.jpg


QUBmNCh.jpg


8pzPGLg.jpg
Click to expand...
The coloring reminds me of an old Norton combination oil stone that the older gentleman that lived across the road from us had. I don't remember the what the writing on it was, but the appearance is very similar. I guess it could be a similar stone that was marketed with that writing on it. Here is a newer Norton similar in color only ... Screenshot_20230507-004258_Chrome.jpg
 
The Odell's stone is quite a bit finer than my Norton combination stone, and the pattern in the stone makes them look like natural stones, not synthetics.

here are some comparison photos

YcbX8Ng.jpg


32OYZXA.jpg


SSo4nbM.jpg
 
UncleBoots said:
My guess is a synthetic razor hone made to resemble a coticule with Belgian Blue backing.
Click to expand...
That makes sense. They could easily simulate the grain with a little artistic mixing during manufacture.

I suppose natural stones are rarely glued together into combination stones.
 
sanmateo said:
That makes sense. They could easily simulate the grain with a little artistic mixing during manufacture.

I suppose natural stones are rarely glued together into combination stones.
Click to expand...
It is utterly common for coticules, because the blond part is very delicate and fragile, so the backing gives it structure. But while there are glued ones, it happens that coticule and Belgian Blue appear together in the mine, so often the combination stone is just as it came from the mine.

Synthetic coticules were definitely a thing. And no one would ever take a soft, delicate coticule and cut a big furrow in the side for the branding. Too much could go wrong.
 
Some of these vintage razor hones are rumored to be popular with the axe racing crowd of Australia. I don't know that to be fact but I haven't heard anyone from the online straight razor community hold them in high regard, though surly there must be some that collect them.
 
fascinating. I saw some mention on forums about using these hones for sharpening axes, but didn’t realize it was so serious
 
garry3 said:
Some of these vintage razor hones are rumored to be popular with the axe racing crowd of Australia. I don't know that to be fact but I haven't heard anyone from the online straight razor community hold them in high regard, though surly there must be some that collect them.
Click to expand...
True on all counts.

I believe it is the Norton razor hone that has reached a $1k+ price, and only the Norton. Whether that is justified, I cannot say.

I too have found no one who will advocate for traditional barber hones as competitive with modern hones. However, I think this ersatz coticule is a different sort of beast, and one that is actually regarded quite well in some obscure corners of the straight razor world (they would have to be obscure, because few have tried these stones). I believe that traditional barber hones consist of coarse pieces, and a carefully conditioned surface to make the coarseness not a factor. This stone looks like something else, something perhaps with more similarity to a fine India, albeit much finer grit.

And yes, there are some that collect traditional barber hones for reasons other than their competitiveness at producing a good razor edge.

I also ran across one poor soul who had spent the $1K+ on a Norton barber hone, assuming that its price reflected extraordinary merit for razor honing. He was very disappointed, but I'm sure he got his money out by selling to a competitive axe racer.
 
Ourorboros said:
I am far from an expert, but the natural combo stones I've seen aren't even or very straight.
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Yes, the natural combo coticules can be very uneven, but Coticules are also glued to Belgian Blues, as well other sharpening stones that are not related, and a slate that isn't recommended for sharpening. There are also vintage synthetic coticules that seems to be made from the waste or dust during the manufacturing of coticules, glued to a slate.

We also have synthetic natural combo razor hones of petrified wood and probably others, as well as India's with Ark's, Washita's ect.
 
followup: I decided I much prefer my shaptons and DMT plates, so I sold the Odell's Beauty razor hone. It went for $175+shipping on the big auction site, which was a pleasant surprise.
 
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