Help me choose a finishing stone (8k+ water stone)

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mrdeus

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Mar 6, 2012
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I'm enjoying sharpening on the water stones I bought about two months ago. I'm only working on fairly cheap kitchen knives at the moment, but I hope to move on to pocket knives (with higher end steel) later.

This is my current setup:

Naniwa Chosera 1k
Naniwa Chosera 5k
Strop with Bark River white compound
(optional) small edge pro strop with Hand American CrO2
(or newspaper on stone)

These are the steels I'm sharpening atm:

Cheap stainless kitchen knives (hrc <= 56)
Carbon steel (1095 equivalent?) Mora utility knife
KAI Bonvivan "high carbon stainless" (AUS6?)

Newly aquired:
Sandvik 12C27 (58 hrc)
Shirogami #2 (62-63 hrc)

These are the steels I have in most of my pocket knives: 154cm, VG-10 & S35VN

I'm looking for a finer finishing stone. These are a few of my options:

Imanishi 8k (€104 incl. domestic (Sweden) shipping) 205 x 75 x 25 mm
*Imanishi 10k (€115)
Sigma Power Select II 10k (€110 incl. shipping from Germany) 205 x 78 x 25 mm
*Sigma Power 13k (€119) 205 x 75 x 25 mm
Naniwa Super 8k (€87 incl. shipping from the Netherlands, €85 (baseless) from Germany) 210 x 70 x 20 mm
Naniwa Super 10k (€91-95)
*Naniwa Super 12k (€98-99)
For reference: Chosera 10k (€208)

* = I have my eye on these

I included price with shipping and taxes included to show what I'd pay in case one stone is "better for the money, but at that price go for the other one". I have the feeling that, put in context with the other stones, the Imanishis are a bit overpriced.

The chosera 10k is too expensive and I'm curious to try other type/brand stones.

As I understand, Imanishi is the company that makes Kitayama and Bester stones. The ones I'm looking at are OEM:ed for another brand.
Other brands available from these vendors: Suehiro Cerax (<=8k) & Shapton Ha-no-kuromaku.

My question is: which stone would be best after Chosera 5k and as a final stone out of these?
 
Have you seen the Naniwa snow white 8k? Another good stone that's worth a look.

If you are limited to the ones listed though then the imanishi 10k is a nice stone (I have one) and will put a very fine polish on a edge.

FYI, I only see one steel listed that would benefit from a 10k edge and I wouldn't use any of the stones listed to sharpen it.
 
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I've seen the snow white stone (seems very good), but I've only seen it at US dealers and the shipping alone will be around $75 with import taxes. So, I'd like to use an European dealer. That's what's limiting me to these stones. But I'm still interested to hear why other stones might be a better choice.

I decided to learn to sharpen better before getting new kitchen cutlery. The new knives I got are budget alternatives that had better steel than my (very) old knives. I'm aware that my old set don't hold the edges especially well. So, overkill with regard to the steels listed is acceptable :). I'm interested to know which steel you are referring to and what stone you'd prefer and why.

edit: Belgian Coticules is also an option available to me, but I got the feeling that it'd be too close to the 5k stone to make any greater difference.
 
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Most of the steels you listed don't have the hardness to support a finely polished edge, most would actually do best around 1k. Even your pocket knives with better steels at this level.

The Shirogami @ 62-63 has the hardness and likely the geometry to support and hold a high polish edge. The knife type will also determine what stones need to be used. Naniwa stones leave a higher polish in the way of mirror like polish which is fine for double bevels on standard blade styles but if its laminated not so much. When I refer to polish I speak of using natural stones or synthetic stones that approximate the results of a natural stone. It's a hazy dull look instead of a glossy polish. This works better on traditional style kitchen cutlery and provides a edge that is in my opinion superior in cutting to a glossy polish.

Is it a tojiro?
 
It might be :). It's an OEM:ed knife from Seki City that looks very similar to the Tojiro. Only difference is the wood in the handle.

I have pocket knives with ZDP-189 and D2 as well, but the bulk are 154cm and VG-10. I have "edge pro edges" on some of them that have a very fine polish and I'm happy with those edges. I've noticed that my old kitchen cutlery can't support the thin edges I've been putting on them while practising, which is why I'm (little by little) looking into higher end/harder stuff. I do think the edges seem better coming off the 5k stone than off the 1k even for the cheapo knives. The reason why I'm interested in trying an even finer stone is that I feel that I can improve the edge on the compound loaded strop after the 5k stone, but I'd like to get that refinement straight off the stones. Perhaps it's just my technique that's lacking.
 
Sometimes what we cut and how we cut it can have a big effect on the edge type. I myself like Aoto stones and the edge left along with stones around 5k. To me its a good mix between having a little bite and cutting efficiently.

How fine you can take a edge is typically related to the material hardness and its relation to edge stability. The steels elemental content also plays a part. D2 likes a coarse edge for most cutting and a polished for chopping, VG-10 likes a higher polish, 154cm can be whatever you like, and ZDP is so hard it almost begs to be polished.

If it works how you want it to then there is probably not much need for change, just know that if really put to the test, hardness, material content, what's being cut, and how its cut will all be the deciding factors on how it should be sharpened.

All that said, get the chosera 10k if in your budget. I've always found consistency among stones to be very important.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I don't know anyone where I live that knows about this stuff, so this forum (+googling) is my only source of information.

I might end up holding off until I feel like I absolutely need the finer stone (which would warrant the price of the Chosera imo). I guess the benefits will be minimal compared to what I get out of the original set of stones, which is why I feel that the Chosera might not be worth it at this point.

I'm still interested to hear what people think about the different stones I listed, though.
 
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Thanks for the reply. I think the Kitayama is manufactured by Imanishi. I wonder if it's similar to (or the same as) either of the Imanishi stones at the Swedish store (I asked and they said they didn't know).
 
Shoot Dave an email. If he doesn't know, he'll be able to point you to someone who does. Here is what the stone looks like:

01099109kb.jpg
 
Cool. With the exception of my 5k stone, none have a base and it like it that way. If you happen to get one with a base, it just means you have to flatten more often. Be sure to pick up a good coarse diamond bench stone or some good wet/dry sandpaper to keep things nice and flat.
 
I have a smallish coarse diamond plate that I've used for flattening edge pro stones. I'll have to upgrade to something bigger/different eventually.


edit: after spending way too much time thinking about this, I ordered the Sigma 13k. We'll see how it goes :)
 
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