help me choose my .45 - SIG p220 or Kimber customII

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Jun 27, 2002
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I had it narrowed down to a SIG p220 but then I began looking at the Kimbers and thought some more and found they are close in price so now Im wondering what to do.

I know it all comes down to me holding the gun and what I like and my personal preference but If anyone would like to give some advice or what they like and why. Please dont make this into a big brand X versus brand Y flame thread. Just need some pros and cons. Thanks
 
I'm extremely happy with my SIG-P220.

There has been some discussion on the tacticalforums.com website about Kimber frame quality going downhill recently, and some P-220's experiencing frame cracks as well.

The 'reasonably knowledgeable' individuals there recommend the Springfield Amory .45 ACP's, and the USN S.E.A.L. certified SIG-P226 in 9mm as good choices.

Having both, I recommend them as well.

But, as I said above, I'm extremely happy with my SIG P-220, and would take it first in almost all instances. YMMV

Mel
 
MelancholyMutt said:
I got the wierdest sense of Deja Vu!

hahaha, yea I first posted this in W&C thinking it was here.

right now im set on gettin the 220 but just wanted to hear about other things before I commit
 
the SIG P220 is an excellent gun, bought mine in the mid 80's(mine is one of the first w/the side mag release) and carried the heck outta it for yrs until i retired it for my glock 33, a very reliable, accurate, well made gun. very accuarate. mine will feed anything i put in it, no prob. i dont know how many rounds i have put through it, but its been a lot, no frame cracks/excessive wear/etc. it will feed the OLD flat style hydrashoks, and not many 1911's will do that, we tried on several of my buds 1911's and most would not feed them.

also have a kimber, its a good one too, prob more accurate than the SIG, maybe, a little more finicky about ammo though. again, very well made, imho the kimber is the best 1911 unless ya go custom or semi custom, and the gunsmith better be good too.

i guess it just depends on what ya want, either one is an excellent gun, probably the best 2 .45acp pistols around, yeah the glock, i know, its just so big.

probably for edc use i would go w/the SIG, maybe, the kimber is good too, a hard choice.


greg
 
I think one of the most important factors to consider is that the Sig is a double/single action with no safety (decocker only) while the Kimber is a single action w/ safety.

If you don't have a lot of time to spend on practicing the manipulation of a 1911 handgun, to the point of it becoming second nature, then I would go for the Sig without question, if you are going to use one of these pistols in a defensive role. I have several 1911s but because of my busy schedule I just haven't had the time to put into being extremely efficient with the operation of a 1911, and as such I won't press one into defensive service until I do.

I have a Sig P220, which was actually my first larger caliber handgun (outside of .22 pistols), and it has served me well for the last 8 years. I've fed it thousands of rounds, from junk Russian FMJ (Wolf) to wide-mouthed hollow-points (Rem Golden Sabres) with absolutely zero failures to feed. As such it is my primary home defense gun and I would stake my life on it.

Sig also has specials from time to time where you can send your gun to their custom shop in NH for an action/trigger job and cleaning/inspection for very little money - I had this done last year and it made an already outstanding handgun even better :D
 
Sig makes great guns and probably if both are in stock condition it is the better gun. That said however, I prefer a 1911 by any firstclass manufacturer, because it can readily be customized into the best of semi-auto handguns.

The safeties and single action of the 1011 are just about foolproof. With the grip safety and the single action cocked and locked, it is the fastest to get into action of anything I have used.

So, if you want an out of the box gun, get the Sig. If you want to customize your gun into something special, get a 1911, Kimber or otherwise.
 
Both good choices; however, I prefer the Glock 30 (.45 ACP). It's really comfortable to shoot and dam accurate. If you get one, have the night sights installed. Good luck! :p
 
check out www.gun-tests.com . They are the Consumer Reports of firearms. You can do a search on the guns you are looking for and pay for any reviews they have without subscribing (I think a subscription costs about $20 per year).
 
I really like my 220, I've never owned a 1911 style so I can't compare. The Sig is very accurate and I've never had a failure. I called Sig after getting the gun and asked about ammo. I was told hard ball is best "white box" Winchester
is real good and to keep the slide well oiled. Pretty simple and it works!

I am looking for a 45 mid size for carry and may well go with a Kimber.

Win
 
Okay, first off let me say I'm biased. I love the 1911. I have eight, made by Colt, Springfield Armory, Kimber, and Paraordance, in .45, .40, and .38 Super calibers. I have owned Sigs, and they are great guns; I have owned Glocks, and while they are a very good gun, I never could warm up to them.

Not to get on my soapbox, but a property tuned 1911 in the hands of someone who is willing to take the time to learn how to use it correctly is the best combat pistol around.

Out-of-the-box most 1911's need some TLC, although the standard quality has improved in the past few years. I like a trigger with about a 4.0 -4.5 lb. pull for everyday carry, no creep, and that breaks like a glass rod. I have never found a design I like as well.

Just my opinion.
 
I think a factor to consider would be if you enjoy customizing your pistol. Things like Grips,Grip screws of different designs, different magazines,etc. I've spent alot of time considering which accesories to add or change on my Kimber. I really like my Kimber alot but I think if I had to do it over again I would go with a SIG. I mean have you ever heard of someone having to get their SIG tuned to be accurate or reliable? My Kimber has been reliable and accurate(at least as accurate as I am :rolleyes: ) but I just think maybe the manual of arms of the SIG would suit me better. I'd just like to have both I guess.
 
The SIG P220 is a great pistol. I like the grip angle of the SIG series better then the 1911 because it doesn't "break my wrist" - it recoils straight down my arm in a very ergonomic way. Accuracy and reliability out of the box are very good. It balances in the hand very well too. The negatives are the DA/SA trigger technique and the longer trigger pull in general with the stock trigger.

The 1911 is great if you want to spend money on it with lots of upgrades. The SA (Signle Action) trigger pull is shorter which is an advantage along with only worrying about mastering one trigger pull technique instead of two on the SIG. It also has a manual safety if that is important to you. Personally, revolvers don't have them and don't need them so, I would opt for the SIG Double Action without an external manually operated safety.

A top end 1911 like a Les Baer is a really nice pistol to shoot but, it is also expensive. At about 50% of the cost, you can get a SIG P220 that will do everything the 1911 will without all the mods.

Also, I don't like the series 80 triggers myself. The 70 Series always served me well. The "lawyer lever" just adds complication that is not needed.
 
I love the 1911's, and own a couple of Glock .45's that shoot very well. BUT, I really would like a SIG 220 with a light rail and night sights. Those 220's are very accurate and smooth. I've really spent too much money lately, but when I save a few more coins, I plan to purchase a 220 like the one I mentioned above. :D
 
I own a small fortune (10) in 1911’s (stock and full customs) in 3 calibers, the Glock 21 and Sig 220, well actually several each of Glocks and Sigs in different calibers. I have been lucky in the fact that I’ve been able to fire hundred of thousands of rounds of .45’s. Admittedly the 1911 is my favorite by far, but I’ve put thousands of rounds through my Glock 22 and Sig 220 also.
IMO you cannot go wrong with any of the 3 pistols makes cited above. I have only one Kimber a CDP, although an ultra compact the pistol shoots really well, especially at self defense ranges (2 to 10 yards), feeds every thing I’ve put in the magazine. Fit and finish is excellent, trigger minimal slack, no creep and breaks clean. This pistol was built in early 2000, so it may not be representive of the current model Kimbers.
The Glock I bought right after the G21 hit the market in the early 90’s. What can you say about a Glock? they simply work The trigger will never be any thing special, more than accurate enough for defensive work and they feed damn near anything. Chuck Taylor, a well known self defense/combat shooting instructor has a G19 that at last count has 175,000 rounds through it without a fail to fire/ fail to feed/ fail to eject attributable to the pistol. Quite a feat for any fire arm. The Glock may be the most rugged pistol of the 3, able withstanding a bunch of abuse. Noteworthy is the fact that it is rare to see rust and or corrosion on a Glock, due to the “Tupperware frame and finish on the metal parts including all internal metal parts. If you go with a Glock, ditch the plastic stock sights and pick up a set of after market steel nite-sights. In my experience the Glocks do not carry concealed as well as other makes. Good ergonomics although the grips are too large for many folks to properly grip and index the pistol.
The Sig, like the Glock has minimal controls, slide release, mag release and take down lever. The Sig is a high quality piece of work, decent sights out of the box, but Novak’s are better. The drawback to the Sig, IMO is the double action first round. The transition from double action first round to single action causes many folks problems. That first round is difficult to get off fast and accurate for many folks. It can be done but takes practice. Great ergonomics and again the large grip and long reach to the trigger make the pistol difficult to shoot for many folks.
The 1911’s, folks would have you believe that they are the hardest to shoot, most unreliable and “HOLY CRAP YOU CARRY IT LOCKED AND LOCKED, YOU MUST BE CRAZY, YOU NEED YEARS OF SPECIAL TRAINING TO DO THAT!” Hogwash, it does require a different manual of arms and trigger management is different, the safety must be disengaged in preparation to fire and the trigger stroke is much shorter than the SIG or Glock. With practice these things become 2nd nature. The need to master only one short, crisp trigger press is one of the features that make the 1911 easy to shoot well. As opposed to the Glock or Sig, the longer the trigger stroke the more difficult to hold the pistol on target during the stroke. I view the frame safety of the 1911 as a plus, especially on a defensive gun. Regarding reliability, in the past 10 years or so, Colt, Kimber and host of others have incorporated reliability work into the out of the box stock guns. Another plus for the 1911’s is the fastest aimed first round, due to the single action trigger. It is just easier to shoot well.

All of these pistols are more than accurate enough for defensive work or casual plinking.

Just my druthers, I’d go with the Kimber they are a fine pistol.


Steve
 
If I could have one out-of-the-box centerfire semiauto, it would be the P-220. Slap some Hogues on it, and you're good to go.

maximus otter said:
I've heard anecdotal evidence that the 220 is the most accurate .45ACP handgun available.

maximus otter
Write up several years ago--they fit a Bar-Sto premium barrel in a P220, and lost accuracy versus stock.
Don't hear that very often ;)
 
One thing you mentioned is the 220 having the larger grip and long reach to the trigger, I have small hands so I do hope that I find it easy to manage.

only thing so far is to go out to hold the gun but I'd have to make an hour trip to the nearest sig dealer to do so which I havent had time to do yet.

Do the hogue rubber grips decrease the size of the grip? or are they made to factory size? What, if any, are the smallest aftermarket grips you can add?
 
the hogues make it thicker, i didnt like them, if ya have small hands the colt might fit ya better, ya can also get short reach triggers for the SIGs, i presume they make them for P220's, know they make them for P226/etc


greg
 
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